Helping family financially

[Winterdandelion]

I wasn’t sure exactly where to post this but wanted some advice. Disclaimer that I know this situation ultimately might be none of my business.

My sibling and their partner are having a very hard time financially. Sibling is on a decent salary and partner had also been until recently but neither earns enough to cover their outgoings on their own. They have two children with nursery costs. Partner has been off work ill for over a year now and just prior to Christmas was dismissed as was assessed of not being capable to work with no chance of that improving in the immediate term. Due to their illness (mental health) it’s not clear whether they will go and find anything else now or be willing to.

Sibling is at breaking point and very distressed that they may lose their home. Taking children out of nursery to cut costs also not an option as partner may go back to work and they don’t want them to miss out. There doesn’t seem to have been much of a plan in place for if the worst happened and they ended up on this position. It is an incredibly difficult situation but I would like to help them if I can. Our parents are no longer alive so no other family who could potentially help either financially or practically. I’m just not sure whether a) they would accept it b) it could make things worse/impact the relationship. Whilst I couldn’t stretch to meeting half their usual outgoings I could comfortably provide a small amount each month (say £100) and fully accept I’d likely not see it again - it would be a gift. That may make absolutely no difference in the grand scheme of things. I think sibling doesn’t want to rock the boat with partner given their ill health but with a young family to support I can’t help but think they will need to focus on themselves and the kids first if it comes to it.

I wondered if others had had similar experiences of helping family members out in this way? I know ultimately it’s nothing to do with me but seeing sibling so stressed is heartbreaking.

Is the partner receiving any sort of benefits or is the family at all and on any kind of treatment plan?

That’s the first thing to ascertain.

Not at the moment (benefits) as received a small severance but obviously will need to look into that once that runs out. Is having some treatment but as they have been receiving this to some degree for what appears to be years it’s not clear whether there will be any/much improvement.

I gave my best friend 2k without wanting it back as she was on the verge of losing her house and I don’t regret it, both her and her husband work FT but their outgoings jumped up about £600 per month thanks to mortgage, utilise, food, general cost of living and childcare and sadly their full time wages didn’t go up!

They were accruing debt and couldn’t see a way out, they never asked me for the money and were both very wary about accepting but finally they did. after a few months after I gave them the 2k her husband got a better paying job and she got a second job (both of them were going to get second jobs but her second job offered better hours and flexible so he does the childcare) so they are just scraping by now.

If partner has been dismissed as he was assessed as not being able to work then there are a number of possibilities that he could explore:

This opens up the possibility of medical early retirement

He can certainly claim benefits.

He can claim PIP which is a benefit to support disabled people whether they are in work or not. If he has been dismissed for medical reasons he has a good case for this.

He can also claim UC.

In your shoes I would try to help them get the help they are entitled to from the state and from their previous job as it is likely they will be entitled to benefits.

The forms can be challenging but it would get them much more money.

Whilst I think your offer of financial help is vey kind, I would focus more on helping apply for benefits (they can do this now if the partner has a MH diagnosis and paperwork to support that it has resulted in them being unable to work).
That in itself will likely provide more a financial support than the money you could give.

It is up to them how they want to focus their finances but ultimately the choice around nursery etc may be made for them if they can't afford it.

My situation is different in that my sisters partner just left and is 'self employed' so pays random amounts of money sporadically. She has 3dc, one with a disability and is unable to work full time.
I support by providing childcare every week, pay for nephews sports club subs and buying practical things for birthdays and Christmas to reduce her expenses.

Why did your sibling/OH not take out of nursery the children a long time before they were in this dire situation?

Did they cut back on TV and phone contracts?

Did they stop eating out and ordering takeaways?

Did they go on hols during the time of being out of work?

If they have, then I'd give them money. However, one needs to be careful throwing good money at bad situation.

Tell them to speak to their lender to extend term and can effectively massively reduce outgoings or a payment holiday

I hope your siblings OH gets a job and is well enough to hold it down

NB: Contact DWP for benefits advice

Personal Independence Payment

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/#:~:text=Personal%20Independence%20Payment%20(PIP)%20is,don't%20affect%20your%20eligibility.

I won a little bit of money so gave 2 close relatives £1k each as they are on benefits and one clearly struggles. I don't think the other does struggle (due to parental help) but I couldn't treat one differently than the other.

Btw - by all means give 100/700/xx a month as long as you see hope - if not, save your money until they lose their home - sorry, it is the world of reality and that is what I'd do

If you feel giving xx a month will see them over the bad patch, then do it

About 25/27 years ago a cousin on my OH lost her husband who was a drinker and out of work - cousi worked 3 young kids - we asked if they needed help and she asked outright for money - the three of us were alone - we gave a couple of hundred as a gift and said we may be able to help more if required. She never asked again but many years later talking about her husband my OH's cousin said she'd never for the help we gave and honestly we had forgotten - she kept their home and children are all in good jovbs etc - so helping family at times is ok

Not to this degree in terms of cutting back but certainly no holidays or anything like that. Sibling I believe doesn’t want to make partner feel bad so there hasn’t been any real budgeting taking place i.e getting food bill down, no takeaways/treats.

Unfortunately I couldn’t provide any childcare as work full time office hours but agree could help in other areas with things nephews need.

It doesn’t sound as if £100 will touch the sides of their problems if they’re paying for expensive nursery places and still not budgeting for their reduced incomes.
I wouldn’t do anything formal or regular. Maybe go over and treat them to a take away or take sibling out shopping if there’s something they or the DC really need.

Ok thanks. I'm not having a go but did sis not see what was coming and what was coming was a lot worse than if they cut back earlier?

You are in a difficult position - if you had a word with her about watching what they spend and or cutting back etc - most likely she will get upset and tell you to to xxx your help

Honestly, people need to learn to prepare and your sis could have - so, you giving xxx a month, she stood has to seriously cut back - otherwise I'd not bother and only help once they were kicked out - sounds harsh but it could be reality

I wish you ad your sis and her family all of the best

I agree with a pp that unfortunately £100 won't make a dent in anything if they've got two kids in childcare and only one wage coming in. They've been unwell enough to be dismissed from work, if throughout that process they haven't felt well enough to return to keep their job I'd expect it's very unlikely they'll be getting another job any time soon. I think they need to be realistic and pull the kids out of childcare. It's not sustainable.

I didn’t think you were having a go at all. These are all questions I’ve had myself but don’t feel like it’s my place to advise them on how to spend their money.

Have they looked into any benefits that they may be entitled to, it sounds to me they should get some help. If you want to gift them an amount each month, that’s fine, like you say it’s a gift and not a loan just to tide them over. I’ve paid for a car for my brother, although he’s in his 60’s, he lives alone and has no spare cash and needed a car.

This is difficult as once you commit yourself you may start to resent if they spend their money unwisely, or rather in ways that you consider to be unwise. Strikes me that they really need to cut right back on their outgoings for a start. You could help out in other ways, supermarket gift card, clothes for the children.

That is slightly what I’m worried about and maybe grocery contributions/stuff the boys need might be better. I similarly thought the obvious solution is boys come out of nursery, extended mortgage term/interest only for short while and some severe budgeting going on. I don’t quite know what the resistance is to partner having the boys at home, it seems to be about them missing out but I do wonder if he’s not up to it/or at least says he’s not up to it.

Sounds like a case of pretending it’s not happening.
They need to use up the severance pay but look in to UC now.

As you are considering assisting with money then I see no reason to not speak about budgeting.

You’re wasting your time and money if they’re not budgeting. I had a similar situation during Covid with DB. He kept losing his (shit) jobs and would ring me and tell me he couldn’t afford his bills. I gave him £1k twice, and when he asked for another £500 a couple of weeks later I offered to look at his outgoings and made suggestions of things he could cut back on. e.g. He was paying for repayment protection insurance that hadn’t paid out even after he’d lost his job, but he was still paying it. 🤔 He hit the roof when I advised that he should have his SKY (full sport and cinema package) turned off. I pointed out that he couldn’t afford it, and he said “I deserve it!”

I told him that I don’t have Sky myself because it’s so expensive so why the f*ck does he think I should fork out for his!

If your DB has a similar mindset you’re throwing good money after bad. It won’t make a dent on their situation anyway.

I haven’t said anything about possibly contributing and they haven’t asked. I don’t know whether they actually would but I agree there is a bit of avoiding the reality they are facing going on or at least keeping things out of the conversation so as not to impact on partner.

I suspect long term that they will have to pull the kids out of nursery as it won't be affordable on one income.

It's not particularly fun looking after preschool kids while ill (done it myself for a year or so) but I suspect they won't have a choice.

From what you have said it might take them a while to realise but if it's that or the house...

The dc should be cared for by the unemployed parent at this point unless there’s a darn good reason not to.
Nursery is an expensive necessity for those who are working, it’s a luxury for those that are not.
Offer what you feel comfortable with op.

I haven’t read the full thread but in my past experience of reading threads like this mumsnetters tend to take quite an ‘every man for himself’ type approach to helping family.

I don’t know you or your sibling but I can say if it were me I’d give my sibling (sister in my case) any money I have in a heartbeat.

You are a nice kind sibling to think of this and I am sure that offering will not go down badly even if it’s turned down. As I say I don’t know your sibling though, some people are proud about that kind of stuff and would be offended.

If the unemployed parent has such severe mental illness that they can’t work they will struggle to be an effective parent for nursery age children. It may even be unsafe. I was raised by a mother with severe mental illness. Messed me up for life.