So many consider themselves underpaid, where does this leave our society?

[Reluctantadult]

Didn't know whether to put this in politics or cost of living, but suspect this gets more traffic at the mo. Just musing that so many people think they're under paid now. Where does this leave us as a society? Groups that are considering striking or pre-strike action, that I have read of or know of myself: railway workers, train drivers, nurses, teachers, barristers, bus drivers, baggage handlers, paramedics, bin men, BT engineers, postal workers, the Environment Agency, Natural England...

I am a teaching assistant, supporting apx 120 children every day (2 yr groups, 2 class intakes) I work full-time.

I cannot live on what I earn (£13k pa). There is no school holiday childcare in my town for primary age children, that works around a working day, so working outside education isn't feasible (single parent + young children). I still have to pay for housing & bills, and a lot of financial help is not available eg to qualify for free school meals, you have to earn under £7,400 pa.

I regularly need to use Food Banks, inc Christmas last year. It takes a toll on your mental health. I hate that I can't give my children lots of things others consider basics eg we have no TV because I can't afford it. A couple of years ago, I was in the same situation: a colleague couldn't understand that I didn't take part in Secret Santa or shared lunch because I honestly did not have the money. Some people have no idea/comprehension of what it is to live below the breadline.

@Ivyblu same applies to a lot of roles that pay less
The reality is we can't all earn £100000 and if we did things would cost even more
Its housing thats the biggest issue its gone up way faster than wages

@NCembarassed do you not have child minders ? Many will have them in school hold etc
And £13 k must be for part te as below min wage , also fsm can't be for only below £7000 and even those on benefits with kids won't be on that low

I think I'm probably slightly overpaid if I'm honest. But obviously I wouldn't go round saying that in real life and particularly not to my employer.

@Aleaiactaest @user1471465329

Please could you explain to me how a partner earning £1.5m and paying close to £700k in income tax is a wealth hoarder? How much do you think should be taken from them - £1m instead??

@user1471465329 and sorry this is incredibly naive. A change in capital gains tax would make huge swathes of the city leave the country. Many people have jobs that are so easily transferable even if you don't. I know multiple people who have moved to the Middle East and Asia in particular in the last 2 years based on being sick of working 90-100 hr weeks but having an effective tax rate of near 50%.

Unfortunately these wealth hoarders you seem to despise pay the majority of tax that keeps the system running...

My DP thinks he's overpaid for what he does. I'm a community carer earning £11 an hour and don't really think I'm underpaid. Most of the care agencies in my town are only paying minimum wage which is definitely underpaid.

This is so true. So many people have to have 'stuff' these days and when something like this comes along there's no extra money to pay for it. Why are nurses going to food banks? Plenty of other people earn less than nurses and don't need to use one.

1. because their salary is worth 20% less than ten years earlier
2. because they have prior financial commitments and didn’t anticipate a decade of stagnant wages
3. childcare costs working unsocial shift patterns

this is just painful.

@carmenitapink - the world has changed a lot in the last 30 years. All these tech billionaires around now - some have so much power they can rival governments, undemocratic in my opinion. Some have more influence than emperors of bygone ages.

We used to joke in my law firm in the early 2000 about how much profit shares for equity partners had suddenly risen when the firm went global and how ridiculous West London house prices were. Well it has become a lot worse and strangely Covid was bumper years too, unexpectedly so. Bankers other than a blip during the financial crisis and dot com have also been raking in big salaries. Yes, these industries feed London and represent a huge tax take for the U.K.— however, there is no denying many are vastly overpaid.

Divide between rich and poor has grown enormously. It is the Wild West of Capitalism.

I did not suggest further huge tax take from these individuals because I know many can and will leave - although increasingly it is the younger ones who do. I am just stating the situation as is, objectively.

@healthadvice123 childminders in my town only take school age children, during term time only, they don't even cover inset days.

I work 8.30-3.30 every school working day, so full-time. As is common, my pay gets averaged out over the year, so I still have money coming in during school holidays. I don't earn enough to pay income tax. It is apx £13k pa.

The FSM threshold comes from the Government's website

Honesty, good riddance. Idc if those people want to live elsewhere. The rich have ruined London for everyone else and no doubt other cities are feeling the same.

Really interesting question. I do think we completely undervalue the most important in our society. I think the point about tech giants being a concern is true.

But

I'm an employer. We pay a full time wage that could support a sahm and two kids (to be fair a very careful sahm). We have a number of employees like this. Some are fine and dandy. Some consider themselves awfully underpaid. But often they are the ones who make what the others consider poor choices. The other factor is it's a job you can do with v little wuakifications so we don't factor in student debt repayment which a nurse would have.

You’re comparing a nurse with people you employ who, (in your own words) make poor choices and hold very little qualification? I’m not sure the point you’re trying to make here.

What’s your pension though?

@user1471465329 you may say good riddance but the country would be absolutely f'd if that were to happen. Who would fund public services if higher tax payers left??

What so many people don't realise is that most people aren't net contributors to the system!

Honestly the things I would do to this system would turn any rich man's hair white.

So spare me the pleas in their defence. They have none.

@user1471465329 why is a higher tax payer already paying about 50% of their income in tax so terrible to you? How much of their income do you think they should be paying? 60%, 70%?

None of my business what your income is, but how much tax do you think YOU should be paying if you had a chance to overhaul the system out of interest?

I always find it interesting that everyone always wants anyone just a little bit richer than them to pay more tax, but not themselves lol.

I'm overpaid. I work in tech and the money is ridiculous compared to those on the front line saving lives.

Honestly I think we're way beyond taxing the rich a bit more.

We need to overthrow the lot of them and get on with saving whatever semblance of an eco system we have left.

@user1471465329 haha I thought you were being serious & was genuinely interested to see what ideas you have, but now you just sound like a crazy shouting "overthrow the rich". What does that even mean?! Anyone on £100k and more, the government should take their property and seize all the money in their bank accounts?

It's hilarious, because people in the U.K. are generally in the top 1% of the world in terms of wealth, but I bet you wouldn't agree that all countries that the U.K. has ever stolen wealth from should come and "overthrow the rich" just because of unfair distribution and historical theft.

You sound like a bit of a loony (in the most respectful and kind way possible) but I do understand your frustration with the current system.

Higher tax payers aren't the issue, it's tax dodging billionaires and the ridiculous class system in this country that still has half of london paying ground rent to the "titled" upper class and the crown estate etc who own most of the land in the country.

Wow, I reply honestly and you call me names? End of conversation.

Police officers pay 13.5%. I’m nhs and pay 12%. Not quite right there.

"We need to overthrow the lot of them and get on with saving whatever semblance of an eco system we have left."

I am with you on that @user1471465329 We are destroying our life support system. And by we I actually mean the richest.

I accept that as a manager in the public sector I’m on about 25% of what I would earn doing the same thing in the private sector. I choose to work in the public sector and to do some good in this world rather than line my own pockets.

But when even senior staff in my organisation can no longer avoid the basic cost of living, it means we ARE underpaid and more junior members of staff are most certainly woefully underpaid.

You cannot run public services on goodwill alone. People need to be able to pay their rent/mortgage, pay their bills and fees themselves.

I cannot stomach the likes of Rishi Sunak, married to a multi millionaire, telling us that our pay is ‘reasonable and fair’. Fuck off Rishi, with your 5k suits and shiny shoes.