So many consider themselves underpaid, where does this leave our society?

[Reluctantadult]

Didn't know whether to put this in politics or cost of living, but suspect this gets more traffic at the mo. Just musing that so many people think they're under paid now. Where does this leave us as a society? Groups that are considering striking or pre-strike action, that I have read of or know of myself: railway workers, train drivers, nurses, teachers, barristers, bus drivers, baggage handlers, paramedics, bin men, BT engineers, postal workers, the Environment Agency, Natural England...

I don't think you could meet anyone who doesn't think they are underpaid though

tradesmen don’t!

I don't think I'm underpaid I know I'm underpaid. That's because I'm a carer and paid on a block pay system. If you take into account my costs for getting to each job such as fuel ( the mileage thing is out by an average of £25 a week for me) wear and tear on my car and time I'm probably paid under the minimum wage. Then I might work 5/10 mins extra to make the client comfortable as social services have cut the timings to the bone and I don't have time to make that happen in the allocation. Oh and if the client needs outside medical help that will be in my own time. I still think I've got the best job in the world though!

I think that's different to a whole group workplace really that collectively decides we're now so underpaid that we will strike or take pre-strike action.

But when so many workplaces feel this way, where do we go? I can't see strikes getting us anywhere, they will just quote the magic money tree*. So presumably at some point that level of pay for that job will sort of becomes acceptable, I'd guess? And it won't feel like not enough any more?! Weird!

*I'm not mentioning the CEO's pay and shareholders 🙄

If you cannot afford your bills comfortably, you are underpaid. If you have no option but to feed your children and go hungry yourself, you’re underpaid.
At a time when companies are making record profits, it is abhorrent that people are forced to use food banks. When the minimum wage was created, it was designed to support a stay a home mother and 2.4 children. People are being screwed over by greedy governments and corporations and too many are happy to pass off the struggling of others as complaining.

Too many are facing working only to survive. What happened to having a decent life?

I totally agree. I am actually surprised that more of a fuss isn't being made. My fear though is that action won't get anywhere, and then the pay levels will become even more socially accepted.

Also the majority of the people in the professions I listed won't be at that extreme end of poverty.

It is what happens when you get inflation and then inflation becomes entrenched. Because everyone demands higher wages which then leads to higher inflation again. The expectation of more inflation then leads to more demands.

Feel more sorry for the more self employed like hairdressers/musicians etc who already had a horrid time during the pandemic. Only people with some job security can strike. It is those that cannot we should worry about most.

Energy and housing being too expensive is a huge problem because they are essentials. If you can barely afford essentials there is not enough fun money left.
It has been a cr.. few years for many. Hope it gets better again soon.

It is what happens when you get inflation on essentials and no wage inflation. On a background of > decade of below inflation pay rises in most of those sectors.

As to how effective those strikes will be, that will largely depend on the impact of withholding labour. If the nurses and ambulance staff are militant enough they will be able to demand what they want and the government will be forced to pay up. Those are safety critical jobs with thousands of staffing vacancies and so market forces will support them. The rail and postal workers face more of a struggle as there are alternatives, such as work from home or different couriers.

I'm in an area where we aren't allowed to strike

Where would that leave us?

If you have 12 years of cuts to public services without investment for the future then you create a vulnerable economy that cannot cope with the knocks of Brexit, the pandemic, war, and rising energy prices. Then you find yourself in a situation where you’ve no wriggle room and you’ve already cut services to the bone and the people have had enough.

I suspect what it’s likely to happen is that the conservatives will be chucked out and labour will have to raise taxes for the broadest shoulders and borrow, neither of which will be popular but if they then invest in the economy it will start to pay off until the next disaster comes along, the conservatives get back in again and cut again and so the cycle continues… We need to look outside of Britain and our own propaganda to see what is going on elsewhere. Income inequality has been rising in the UK over the last 30 years, it’s not sustainable and is bad for the economy long term. I think we are seeing some of the consequences of that sped up.

Hmm guess jr depends on industry

No one I know in the city thinks they're unpaid. I promoted a 27y old music tech grad into a £65k a year role as he demonstrated excellent learnt on the job coding skills

Think the gap between the traditionally well paid and low paid is just more obvious due to high inflation recently

We didn't have this issue 5y aho - people went into people based caring roles that are more satisfying knowing they'd be paid less than more competitive intellectually demanding jobs. It's just inflation has stripped pay right down which is very sad !

It's part of DH's contract that he can't strike. He works for an essential service. He's been there years, but had four years without a pay increase, none this year despite government giving people in that sector 3% (apparently his department in a loophole). Next year has been agreed at 3%, so 2023/24 well under present rate of inflation. He could certainly earn more. I think we're just grateful he has a safe job and can pay the bills.

DH said the other day that a lot of people who are striking earn more money than me. On the surface my job might not seem so important, but one job is supporting some of those that strike and the other is an offshoot which takes pressure of another area who are striking.They're physically demanding and pressurised, so I work extremely hard. I'll still carry on working, again I have jobs, that are fairly safe and am glad to have them right now.

I would say I totally sympathcise for people being treated fairly at work.

Dp doesn't think he is underpaid. He works for a big corporate. He Recognises his pay is ridiculous for what he does. Example: they had a board meeting yesterday and spent an hour deciding what colour the new mugs in the office should be.
On the other hand I'm a social worker. I'm lucky if I get chance to drink a cup of tea at work out of one of our filthy and chipped mugs. Pay is obvs a joke.
And therein lies the wider issue. Society values and pays accordingly, the wrong jobs. Don't know how we change it though.

Nurses and teachers are using food banks, according to their unions. I have teacher friends who are either using food banks, putting bills on credit cards or asking family for money for food shopping. My salary as a HoD is the exact same as my first HoD when I qualified 15years ago. Then, she brought up her family as a single parent. I can’t afford a child.

Underpaid or overstretched?
Many people choose to live a lifestyle beyond their means without leaving any leeway in their budget to accommodate rising interest rates/inflation.

I acknowledge that there are many who live hand to mouth through no fault of their own but for every one of them there is someone with a whole load of finance to service that they didn't need to take on but chose to and then seem surprised when it all goes t*ts up.

I'm not disputing that people are underpaid, in case that's not clear. I work for one of the professions I listed, still at the bottom of my pay scale 16yrs in.

My point is I don't think anything will be done. Then the party situation will become the new normal. And I'm not sure where this leaves us.

Maybe they are. Have a look at the profits train companies have made while being subsidised by UK tax payers and underpaying their staff

Always worth mentioning on threads like this that many of the current strikes are not “just” about pay, and are about conditions and pensions too.

But, income and wealth data for the country will tell us that there are many, many people who are not earning enough to live. That suggests underpaid to me! Even more so when we remember that those at the very top continue to become richer than most could imagine whilst incomes for most working people stagnate and fall in real terms.

Absolutely this. I've seen figures about how much nurses' pay has dropped in the last 10 years. That's not considered underpayment, that is underpayment.

It is what happens when you get inflation and then inflation becomes entrenched. Because everyone demands higher wages which then leads to higher inflation again. The expectation of more inflation then leads to more demands.

This. Effectively, if all wages go up and all prices go up, no-one is better off. You just get things priced in huge numbers, like when Italy had Lira, before the Euro.

There was a great prog on Channel 5 about a month ago - called '1978, The Winter of Discontent'. It looked at earlier years in the 70s too, and how it got to the situation where people were putting in claims for 49% pay rises, and how inflation got to 75% at one point. Rubbish was left piled high in the streets, bodies weren't buried, there was no bread, no sugar, and people queuing for hours to get basic supplies.
Just to warn all the younger MNers, this is what led to the Thatcher era, as she was elected as she promised to not give in to the unions.......

I have never understood why the price of everything has been allowed to go up each year. It is unsustainable. The only thing that has surprised me is that it has taken so long for the average person to stand up and say no more.

But this has happened under a TORY government.

The people in control are the people with all the money. People on six-figure incomes won't be struggling to heat their homes and eat. Nothing will change while wealth inequality is encouraged in this country. Corporations where the CEO is on millions, giving their min wage employees a 2% pay rise. While we shiver and stare at the meter if we dare to put the heating on for an hour, they vaguely think they might have to turn the heating down a couple of degrees on their swimming pools. Nothing will change while we keep voting in the Tories.

BigBlueBus, c'mon, overstretched? Renting a modest ex-council 3-bed terrace on my estate costs around £1800 pcm. DP and I, both in salaried public sector professions, would really struggle to afford this, despite living frugally with no debt. The cost of living crisis is aptly named as it literally spells out that what is too expensive are the costs incurred by meeting our most basic needs of shelter, fuel and food- the cost of actually living. It is not called "the cost of servicing excessive finance agreements crisis".