So many consider themselves underpaid, where does this leave our society?

[Reluctantadult]

Didn't know whether to put this in politics or cost of living, but suspect this gets more traffic at the mo. Just musing that so many people think they're under paid now. Where does this leave us as a society? Groups that are considering striking or pre-strike action, that I have read of or know of myself: railway workers, train drivers, nurses, teachers, barristers, bus drivers, baggage handlers, paramedics, bin men, BT engineers, postal workers, the Environment Agency, Natural England...

I'm sure part of the issue is that wages (across the board - private and public sector) have barely risen in the last 20 years while house prices, particularly in London and the SE have rocketed.

If you cannot afford your bills comfortably, you are underpaid

I think the minimum wage should allow someone to meet their basic needs (housing, food, bills etc) but I don't think its as clear cut as the statement above because some people (a minority) do choose things that are on the cusp of affordability and then a change of interest rate or price increase means they can no longer afford it.

On another thread recently there were some posters that were quite incredulous that there were people earning 30k and under in London. (Not sure how much they thought all the people in pret/timpsons/tube stations/sainsburys local/bars etc get paid...?) When in reality there will be loads more on those type of wages than 100k+

@giggly I agree with your comment about nurses/teachers IRL I doubt many are using food banks. Because how are the TA and HCA managing off lower salaries?

As a police officer though I agree with the other poster they have better terms... not sure about all the ins and outs about their wages!

I wish someone would start a thread on this because it makes you wonder doesn't it.... how the other half live?

Police officers pay double the minimum pension contributions than other public sector employees that’s why they can retire early. The same as mental health nurses in Scotland who have their mental health officer status. Again in RL only a proportion of people live in London and we know, as we get told enough here, that it’s housing costs that people can’t afford. I’d love to live in a better more vibrant area but then my mortgage would increase from £700 to anything above £1000 which I can’t afford. Again people need to live within their means. A band 7 starts at £40000 that’s without the inner London leads, that’s going to keep the wolf from the door in most places in the UK

I’m not sure how many times I can word this.

it doesn’t matter that you think nurses are paid a non starvation wage.

the facts are we don’t have anywhere near a enough nurses and people don’t want to be nurses. Therefore we have to pay them more to attract more to do it.

Is it just the pay though? I wouldn’t want to to be a nurse no matter what the pay was, I also wouldn’t want to be a teacher or a police officer, they are not jobs that appeal or would suit me. If ppl are being put of being a nurse solely due to the pay what better paid jobs are these would be nurses doing now?

No one I know in the city thinks they're unpaid. I promoted a 27y old music tech grad into a £65k a year role as he demonstrated excellent learnt on the job coding skills

And therein lies the problem. London is wealthy, the rest of the country isn’t. Some Northern towns have poverty levels equal to third world countries. Decent wages needs to be distributed across the country not focused on the SE

@Morph22010 no it's not just the pay for the nurses. It's long hours that are physically and emotionally draining, notoriously short staffed and which puts you at risk of loosing your PIN. Nursing isn't forgiving very much if you make a mistake, nights and weekends to juggle then when you decide to have kids.... well your really in for a treat 😀.

The sheer no of staff to patient is ridiculous I work bank sometimes and there's places where I won't work because it's disorganised and poorly ran. I'm a HCA and there salary isn't worth it all

If your full-time wage doesn't cover basic essentials, you absolutely are underpaid.

@Morph22010

The only way I can see zero hour contracts being fair is if it’s on an overtime basis and it’s an employee picking up extra hours in a second role. There needs to be very strict rules around this type of employment which are enforced as companies have exploited this provision made for them massively.

Im conservative, not a Tory or Labour. How anyone on a low hourly rate is supposed to budget with this type of employment is beyond me. It’s lazy to make the assumption that people are feckless. Provide proper opportunities, make secondary school children in deprived areas aware that these opportunities exist, and allow people to profit from those opportunities, and the workforce will be motivated.

For others talking about public servants, for nurses and teaching, it’s not just salaries that need to change. The NHS doesn’t offer a family friendly working environment. Friends who are doctors and nurses have a terrible time booking time off and they regularly swap shifts between themselves. So many doctors are part time now because the NHS hasn’t invested in the technology which would improve productivity and their employees working environment. The abuse hurled at healthcare workers is unacceptable and should be not tolerated. Have these people go private and see the cost of the service they are receiving.

Teachers are so disrespected by children and their parents it’s a national disgrace. They don’t hand out teaching certificates like sweets. British teachers work so much harder compared Danish, Canadian and American teachers and are paid so much less.

I've been suggesting some economist looks in to this sort of idea for years.
I mean, 3x is probably over simplified, but the principle is right.

It is something has been highlighting for a while. I can't find it now but there is a video where she breaks down the income and basic expenditure for an employee of Disney, in front of the CEO and other senior figures.

They must have been spectacularly hard of thinking. How the fuck do such stupid people end up earning so much?

I fully agree

It leaves us in the shit. Thanks to years of underfunded public services, 12 years of Tory corruption, they've sold of the UK by the square mile. You only need to look at what's happening in healthcare for vulnerable young people to see where we are. Fucked.

At least I'm in Scotland which is a bit less fucked and after Independence can vote in elected representatives who believe in society.

Need wealth redistribution, from the top down for once. Since the 70s, it's been the other way, and now we have billionaires, while benefits have to top up salaries.

That's why people are really struggling now. It was inevitable, just a long time coming.

This is something I also advocate. Obviously research would be needed to determine a fair and effective multiple.

Well the equity partners in my law firm earn something like 1.5million in some years and certain admin staff a fraction of that and there are part time employed cleaners etc too.
Those equity partners would just practise elsewhere if you restricted their salaries too much- pretty easy to pass New York bar exams. Same applies to many bankers. Many are international anyway - only stay in London for the high salaries (and accept the high taxes). The whole system is totally messed up - but these persons would just go elsewhere. We are already seeing an exodus of British doctors as well, so good luck with that one. Unless the whole world does the same highly educated smart people who have huge earning potential do leave. It is more important to use tech to replace cheaper tasks and train unskilled Workers to their full potential to improve efficiency. Even big parks are being mowed by robot hoovers in some cases.

Then let them. We can't be held to ransom by wealth hoarders. And I suspect many would stay. Many were here before corporation tax and income tax were lowered by Osbourne and his ilk, so it's not that new to them.

It's a bit like when celebrities vow to leave the country if Labour or Tories get elected. They don't actual go anywhere in the end.

Some of those ones though aren't poor paid
Train drivers do alright, its the cleaners at the bottom who are not
Bt engineers earn pretty well as well

@Kalasbyxor depends where you live as where I am would cost about £800 pcm and some areas even less

@healthadvice123 someone posted about train drivers the other day and they were saying they are responsible for a lot of people and there's a lot of people that take their own life on the railway track!

I don't really know much about that role tbh.

I do fully agree that we need to redistrubute money and make a sustem where a working person can have a decent life, instead of having to supplement with benefits and struggle.
But my further worry is, do we have any political party with the strength to do this? To take from the ultra mega rich those millions.
And I think those paid higher wages should think twice or thrice before striking for better wages in the current situation, to be honest. Because my understanding is that prices would just go up and up for the rest of us who earns less.
I think we should be able to call for new elections. Be able to choose a goverment that do something for the people.

(I really should read my posts before sending!)

Yes unfortunately Labour gave up this aim in the 90s when they removed Clause 4 and paved the way for Blair and his "Third Way" i.e. neoliberalism