Autumn Budget

[OccultOctopus]

Key points so far:

• Upper tax threshold dropped from £150k to £125k
• Other tax thresholds frozen until 2028
• Windfall tax on energy firms to go up to 35%
• Electric cars will have to pay VED from 2025
• Review of a further pension age rise brought forward
• More people on UC to be given 'support coaches' to help them find work
• Spending squeeze on all depts except health

'Should' is another one I'd ban. How do you quantify who needs help?

Its a good job you aren't in charge of policing other people's language then!

I'd quantify for pensioners in exactly the same way it is quantified for means-tested benefits (eg pension credit) now. But probably a bit more generously across the board tbh.

So you'll be giving it back? not claiming your state pension?

I honestly don't believe for a second there will be a non-means tested state pension when I retire.

And, I can spot a "gotcha" question a mile off. If I said I won't claim it or that I'd give it to charity you'd accuse me of lying. If I said I'd accept it you'd accuse me of hypocrisy.

The only way to target State Pension would be to means test it. That would 1) be hugely expensive 2) counter-productive as it could put people off saving/paying into a pension.

The average pensioner needs the Stae Pension:

The average income for pensioner is £511 per week and for single pensioners. £246 per week.

Benefit income, which includes State Pension, was the largest component of total gross income for both pensioner couples and single pensioners. This was 56% for single pensioners, while for pensioner couples it was 37%.

Income from occupational pensions was 35% of total gross income for pensioner couples and 29% for single pensioners.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/pensioners-incomes-series-financial-year-2020-to-2021/pensioners-incomes-series-financial-year-2020-to-2021

I think looking at the actual increase is helpful. % don’t show what people are living off.

Just want to point out, the extra money for pensioners is for those who receive the Winter Heating Allowance. Not all pensioners get this, only those who were already getting the State Pension before end September. Some people, like me, have to wait until winter of 2023 to get this benefit, so no help for me.

It's straight forward.. Her father is signing on and "working on the side" like many people do quite openly. Or he may be signing long term sick and working on the side. Either way, he will get class 1 NIC credits for every week has has signed on sick or unemployed since aged 16. Class 1 NIC credits from signing on or signing sick will give him qualifying years for state retirement pension exactly as if he has been employed.

there are a fair number of people in receipt of state pension who categorically do not need the money

and those people pay tax on it.

I really wish journos would challenge these statements - the obfuscation is infuriating. I’m not sure anyone should be feeling happy with extra funding for schools, health & social care if it’s not enough to e.g. stay ahead of unfunded pay rises.

Hmm, what about affordable childcare?

And, I can spot a "gotcha" question a mile off. If I said I won't claim it or that I'd give it to charity you'd accuse me of lying. If I said I'd accept it you'd accuse me of hypocrisy

Damn, sussed.

I honestly don't believe for a second there will be a non-means tested state pension when I retire

And I can spot when someone's using a hypothetical situation based on nothing more than a belief to avoid answering.

It wasn't my claim, I said I didn't agree it was accurate and wanted a fact checker.

Anyway it's a load of nonsense even if it refers to students as most students have a job at some time or other.

I began planning my retirement 40+ years in advance (when I started work) with absolutely no expectation of state support. I see it as my responsibility to ensure I have enough private pension to support myself in retirement.

I began planning my retirement 40+ years ago too. Part of my plan was paying NI contributions to ensure I would be entitled to a state pension. You could opt out of that contribution and put your money in a private pension or you could contribute to the State Earnings Related Pension scheme. Should I not now receive that because I've also made other provision and could scrape by without the state pension?

Why should we not be given comparable information to evaluate an extra £12bn on pensions uplift to a relatively meagre £1.7bn extra on health? They’re both ‘services’ …It’s like the government think we’re stupid.

(Estimated based on c. 12.4m pensioners x £972 uplift)

Lots of people lost money through contracting out. The scammers moved in. There was less protections then.

and the very highest "earners" don't pay pesky stuff like income tax anyway.

I didn't opt out antelopevalley I started paying into the state scheme in 1980 in the hope that by the time I retired a state pension would still exist. I never imagined it would if I'm honest but the options were as uncertain and confusing then as now. So I've paid NI/SERPS or its equivalent for 40 odd years. To hear people saying we shouldn't get our pensions as we don't need them is hard to bear after a lifetime thinking I was contributing to ensure I was entitled to it.

I don't see how you see this as supporting the lowest paid. The lowest paid will now be paying more tax due to frozen tax thresholds. Yet benefits up 10%. Surely this will encourage more to go onto benefits as it makes is even less worthwhile for those on low salaries to work, especially with all of the extras which many on benefits claim and/or working cash in hand.

I think this budget is a huge slap in the face for low earners.

For the first time ever at the last general election more people on low incomes voted for the Conservative Party than for Labour.

This is how the Conservative Party reward that and this is what they think of the poor.

@SundaeSunday100 why don't you go onto benefits and see how you manage? You obviously have very little idea.

A huge percentage of those who 'go onto benefits' do so whilst they are working.

Being disabled, I'd really love to know where the gov pulled out of their arse got the £150 for disability vs £300 for pension from.

Obviously it will vary for personal circumstances, but surely it's pretty clear that someone who is physically unable to walk will find it harder to keep warm?
(and that's without comparing to fit pensioners, I genuinely am trying not to race to the bottom here!)

@Archibaldleach By the end of the decade everyone will be claiming some sort of benefit

10% increase for those on UC sounds a lot, but realistically it is only 33 quid extra a month for those on UC so their UC will reach a grand total of £368.74 a month (not including rent payment). Hardly living the high life so with minimum wage increases you are much better off working than being unemployed.

I do question extra cost of living payments next year though... the taxpayer can only fund so much and 900 per person seems a lot to me.

I don't want to question pensioners getting help- if we moan too much by the time we're of pension age everything will have been taken away.

I am so sorry @lieselotte ! I got my posters mixed up. It was ILoveAllRainbowsx who made the untrue claim.

I think you are missing the point. Of course, many deserving people are hugely struggling on benefits and receive very little. This is wrong and I think most people would agree with this.

However, there are a number of people on benefits who could work but choose it as a lifestyle choice and claim for lots of extras effectively working the system. Many also work cash in hand. I'm sure lots of us know people who don't work and who are on benefits and yet seem to have more than many on low incomes. This is what I have a problem with.

We need to be encouraging those on benefits who can work to work by making it more financially attractive. For example, greater help with childcare would help, or increasing the threshold at which people start paying tax. Not increasing the tax burden of those at the very bottom of the salary scale.

So anyway this fuel duty increase - that's going to push up the prices of absolutely everything (even more). That's a bit of a kicker on top of the rest of it.