Myths re lockdown was wrong

[Betsyhilton]

Just seen someone on another thread basically trying to claim that lockdown didnt reduce deaths. The contested John Hopkins survey seems to be encouraging people who basically behaved selfishly, ignored medical advice and did what they liked to now claim retrospectively that they just knew lockdown was wrong.

AIBU to think these are just basically selfish irresponsible people who ignored official advice at the time because it caused them inconvenience and are now jumping on any theory to try to justify their self centred behavior?

NTFT but one of the things I heard from a relative who worked in a org like CDC (but different country) was that covid spread through air too, and masks/lockdown were simply a hopeful directive, never a guarantee, that the virus would move through the population and would take some and spare some and it doesn't matter how careful you are, you can die even if you were fully indoors or you can live even as a caregiver in the front, it all depends on your immunity and if your body could fight off the virus. I think about it a lot now.

Right-o.

lol get off your high horse. Not a single doctor would guarantee me that I won't end up life threatening complications from the vaccine (this is outing but I will say it broadly - I have a compromised vital organ), and when I declined and opted to stay indoors, I was told I was selfish. that by not being vaccinated I was affecting herd immunity and that "needs of the most comes before needs of one." BS. I choose to stay alive so if that is selfish, fine by me, I will choose so every time.

I started reading this thread but it was making me too cross so I have skipped pages of it.

Lockdown clearly saved lives - but that wasn't the primary reason for it. The NHS could never have coped. In that sense, it was the only thing to do. It wasn't as if the UK was the only country to implement it!

I felt safe at home. I had my family home with me. I actually remember it as quite a lovely time - basically "stop the world and I got off". The weather was lovely, and there was always online. I started ordering groceries etc online, and I have kept that up. I always hated supermarkets anyway.

I got to work from home. It took Covid to truly propel organisations into the 21st century in terms of flexible working. I wrote a dissertation on the benefits of wfh (which concluded that hybrid was best from most points of view) in 2005. When I wrote it, I thought we would have moved forward sooner than 2020, because the tech was there, and I never foresaw that it would take a pandemic to force the change!! Pre-Covid, we wouldn't have been permitted to wfh even half a day!!

For me, the worst effects of lockdown were that my DC3 didn't get to sit GCSEs or AS levels. I definitely feel that after one year or no public exams, there should have been mitigations put in place to protect students and allow them to sit exams. As a result, my intelligent DC, who isn't great at exam technique has missed out on that practice, and didn't get into their first choice uni. Plus they won't have to sit exams at uni until finals. DC is sitting on a 1st moving into second year, but them's the breaks.

I realise and understand that there were people way more affected by lockdown than we were as a family. I still think it was the right thing to do, at the time.

I don't live in the UK and just followed the UK's covid policies from a distance, but I don't think that is fair. The UK government's approach was so authoritarian and treated everyone like little children, it is understandable that people didn't think for themselves.

Here in Mexico, where I live, the government only enforced rules on businesses, not on individuals, and used persuasion to convincethe rest of us to do the right thing and it worked.

Staying indoors for nearly 3 years made me a recluse. I was not an extrovert pre pandemic but I at least liked going out with friends and traveling. Now I just want to stay at home, to the point where I am turning down invitations even now and it has started to affect my marriage, as my husband wants to go out and I only want to socialise at home.

Lockdown had so many collateral repercussions. "At least you are alive" is not always the silver lining you want to look for, not when long covid is around and there are lasting psychological issues from the ordeal.

Homogenous societies with large groups of people who were 'all in it together' were happier to follow rules to keep others safe.
Cultures in which more personal space is expected also had fewer infections.
Sadly, while some people in the UK knew a number of people who died of Covid, with approximately 1 in every 300 people dying, most people knew nobody at all who died. That caused some to downplay the very real risks.
Lockdown destroyed an enormous number of businesses, relationships and lives. There will not be another within the next 50 years because we have seen those in the know behave badly and ignore public advice.
More honesty would have saved many lives - particularly among the doctors and nurses whose genetics made them more vulnerable. I happily received all of the experimental vaccines that I was offered, but they shouldn't have been called vaccines as they didn't have the same efficacy as those which had followed the pre-existing protocols such as TB and MMR. Consequently, many people around the globe are now reluctant to have children vaccinated, which will lead to more misery and harm.

Yes, I gather the explanation for Sweden was that they were better at behaving in a responsible way and respecting rules on that front, and they have a society that is much more reciprocal than ours.

Thats the thing though. You treat people like responsible adults and most behave like responsible adults. Infantilise people and I wonder why they are surprised when they behave like children.

I too don't want to think about it, however it is important to think about how it was handled and the effects on so many different people, for different reasons. So, that if the same thing does happen again, we understand more and don't go into a blind panic again.

Sure, there was some selfish behaviour during lockdown. Having parties in the Houses of Parliament being a prime example…

But I don’t really think it’s fair at all to come on here and start slating people for breaking the “rules” and being “selfish”. Everyone’s experience of lockdown was very, very different.

There are many folk who were financially stable, living in decent sized homes with gardens and jobs they could do from home easily. No DV concerns, etc.

Then there were people like myself who were heavily pregnant when Covid was announced in March.

I gave birth a few months later and was alone for the majority of my hospital stay, even when I had a c section. I was home alone with two under two. My partner was a “key worker” so was out of the house 5 days a week stressed to the hilt in work and worried about bringing Covid home to his toddler, his infant child and his post partum partner who was already in the throes of PND.

I broke the rules- I mixed households with my parents’ before bubbles came in. If I hadn’t I’d probably be dead. I won’t ever apologise for that.

There were also others. Carers of those with disabilities, as an example. Children and adults whose lives relied on routine, with that routine suddenly completely thrown out the window. I don’t blame any of them for breaking the rules and trying to keep some semblance of normal for those they cared for.

It wasn’t easy for any of us, regardless of circumstances. But for some it was do-able, others it was torture. I just feel horrendous for those who really did have it tough. I can’t imagine how hard it would have been to be stuck in a domestically abusive relationship during that time, or experiencing real poverty. My experience was tough but so many souls out there had it so much worse and I could never call any of them selfish for breaking rules to try and make it through another day of that hell.

@Lookingatthesunset Quite agree - I think in a situation such as COVID you are always looking at the least worst option. The primary goal of lock down was to keep the health service and care homes operating.

The problem with letting it rip through the population is that the schools, old people's homes and nurseries might have to shut due to lack of staff. Doctors, nurses and care workers wouldn't be able to go to work as they stay home to look after the babies/kids/elderly relations. Who would look after the sick? At that point you are looking at systemic failure.

Agree OP lockdown was the only answer.
The Govn had to look at the bigger picture.
In times such as those it’s important everyone looks beyond their own needs.

Well Sweden - it wasn't lockdown at all in the way of the UK or France etc - people didn't really go crazy

• work from home encouraged - but not compulsory
• no restrictions on where you went of who you could meet - but large scale events - concerts and sporting events were cancelled
• People could travel for Christmas
• People voluntarily socially distanced - smaller shops gained popularity
• Nurseries and school years up to GCSE - stayed open
• 6th form - mixed teaching - both online and small bubble groups 8-10
• uni - mostly online but many students stayed in accommodation and formed bubbles
• Socially distance restaurants - 2metres between tables - close at 8pm (drunks lose all sense of distancing)
• Could come and go as you pleased - no policing of meeting a friend
• Supermarkets remained well stocked - little panic buying and few shortages
• People did their holidays at home in Sweden - price of summer cottages went through the roof. Also trend near me for wild camping at economic historical sights. Personally I went on a road trip from Sweden to Italy without problems
• Hospitals had very strict rules - no visitors - unable to stay with dd in A&E suffering major spinal injury. regular appointments would be handed mask on arrival. Some clinics ordered to cancel routine surgery
• A lot of sporting facilities closed - closing the rehab pool was a major blow
• There was a big problem with the spread of covid in care homes

I can never understand why believe that the restrictions were ineffective.

An airborne virus will infect fewer people when the population aren't in close proximity with one another.

The primary purpose of the restrictions was to slow the rate of infection to prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed.

Even with the restrictions in place, doctors and nurses were being pulled from their fields of practice to assist hospitalised COVID patients.

People speak of delayed diagnoses as a result of the restrictions... well, it would have been a lot worse had no restrictions been in place.

For those mentioning Sweden - you cannot compare the UK to Sweden. Sweden has a much smaller population in areas with a much lower population density compared to UK cities. The Swedes are more likely to follow guidance than the British, therefore putting any restrictions into law unnecessary.

When someone says "I am a scientist", I become curious as to what they are a scientist of and an advanced search often lets me know. I couldn't find anything in the first half-page or so of results to indicate your specialism. That clanger about famines all being man-made practically jumped off the page at me.

You are claiming, without evidence, that the Chinese government overstated the death rate in China. At the same time, you are claiming absurdities about agriculture on another thread. I'm not so sure that I need to take your arguments seriously.

Even with the restrictions in place, doctors and nurses were being pulled from their fields of practice to assist hospitalised COVID patients.

The medical students finishing in 2020 finished and graduated two months early and went straight onto the wards. I think that only those medics and their families and people in academia at the time would have realised that.

Schools and nurseries open, I would have taken that

Some of the rest sounds better too, sounds like a more measured response

I don’t know either way but many aspects of lockdown sere unnecessarily cruel and ridiculous. I often think about single parents living in tower blocks with no garden access. No way should these people have had an hour a day outside. Utter nonsense. Elderly people on their own/people dying alone/giving birth alone. Utterly preposterous. Disgraceful decision making

and schools - especially primary schools - should have been an utmost priority to keep open and reopen first. It is preposterous that pubs opened sooner.

we acted as if we could stop the spread; we couldn’t. We could only slow it. These hard and restrictive lockdowns were unforgivable

(my child - one of them - has been hugely affected. Yes I’m angry. Very)

Covid want "unprecendented" as I've heard multiple times, there were pandemics in 1957 and 1968. But people who were around then don't even seem to remember them and just got on with life. And the NHS didn't collapse. The difference was there was no msm and government ratcheting up the panic (very much keep calm and carryon) and no Internet so people couldn't have worked/shopped from home. Anyway it's all academic as we couldn't afford another lockdown even for a more serious pandemic (and this one was very mild) as it has bankrupted the country.

Hmm. Not sure on that one. Remembering how short a period children were 'isolated', really - and they still could go for walks, etc. - how devastating on development could that be? Honestly.

Anecdotally, as a baby and toddler, my DM was agoraphobic and socially awkward. I never attended preschool. We lived far away from any family, too. So, basically, I only had myself for entertainment until I attended school - so that was a period of years. As far as I'm aware, my speech, language development, and social skills were absolutely fine.

I'm not suggesting that lockdown was a terrible experience for some children, but I do think it can be sometimes catastrophised on here.

Covid 19(84), sums it up pretty nicely.

You obviously don't work in education or child development then. I have been doing this job 15 years, I have never seen such profound and unrecognised developmental delay. There has been a massive increase in speech delay of children entering reception up to 25 -50 % in some areas, it was always more like 10% before. It's not just the speech, they aren't toliet trained, they don't eat with cutlery, they can't share. For those babies born into deprivation at the end of 2019, I'm not sure they will ever catch up. So many of those vital first 1,000 days were spent in isolation.

I would also add it is a joy to start to see those 18m-2yos born in 2022, who have never been locked down, how good their development is in comparison.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/apr/04/pandemic-has-delayed-social-skills-of-young-children-says-ofsted-chief

Eh?? Cancer treatment is immunosuppressive. Cancer treatment + catching covid from hospitals is a death sentence. We had no choice to cancel some major cancer surgeries that require icu beds post op (removing the oesophagus most commonly, which also independent of surgery has a pretty awful prognosis unfortuately) as there were no beds to put them in as all filled with covid patients

It wasn't the lockdowns that meant their surgeries were cancelled it was the lack of beds.... If u had no lockdown there would have been far more admissions and even less availability of beds so your argument is totally illogical

But hey ill leave this thread it's too triggering as an icu dr surrounded by death on a daily basis. Yes I would totally give up my freedoms to avoid that again