Myths re lockdown was wrong

[Betsyhilton]

Just seen someone on another thread basically trying to claim that lockdown didnt reduce deaths. The contested John Hopkins survey seems to be encouraging people who basically behaved selfishly, ignored medical advice and did what they liked to now claim retrospectively that they just knew lockdown was wrong.

AIBU to think these are just basically selfish irresponsible people who ignored official advice at the time because it caused them inconvenience and are now jumping on any theory to try to justify their self centred behavior?

Everyone who looked after the campaign will be more aware of impact over feeling fearful

By campaign I mostly mean publishing daily case and death count and using media heightened headlines

One reason I picked up on it as I’ve been around behaviour change stuff at work, I realised quite early on what a huge and effective behavioural campaign it was. Hence experts in Spi B and SAGE. I’d say the most effective we’ve seen.

In the short term I think Partygate was probably more impactful, because Johnson in particular and to a lesser extent the wider government managed to make themselves the focus of so much of the anger, grief and rage. It was one of those things that pissed people off from every part of the spectrum.

But that government have only got 14 months left at most, so I think it's bound to fade somewhat even if it turns out there are still more photos, videos etc left to get out. The people involved just aren't going to matter very much by early 2025. I could see there being more scrutiny of the messaging then, albeit probably not led by the legacy media for obvious reasons.

@TrashedSofa I hope so for scrutiny

I did think the other day whilst a BBC radio person was going on about the inquiry where the scrutiny of the behaviour of the media (that guy included) might come up.

I've just received an email from the Swedish hotel I'm staying at next week. They're reinstating covid reduction measures because of the cuurent situation.

@EasternStandard

Still think that is just what happens in a pandemic. The daily case/death count. It wouldn’t have been something specific to our country, it would have been happening in countries across Europe. If that info was withheld, and other countries were publishing : we’d be accused of covering up and a lack of transparency.
If UK was using fear tactics to an extreme extent, you’d be able to make a global comparison and say : that was wrong.
But globally I’d say we were not much better/worse than rest of Europe.
Extreme fear tactics are countries like Philippines where you’d be shot at for disobeying.
I do think fear tactics ARE a part of behavioural psychology and behavioural psychologists do consider and use them, there are studies on how they’d be implemented e.g smoking campaigns, don’t play on train lines, drowning risk etc

@WhalePolo It was part of the behavioural campaign. Spi B and SAGE will have used whatever messaging at their disposal to get compliance higher

That other countries did the same doesn’t change the fact that experts were brought together to use messaging to maximise compliance. And compliance without force needed more than people understanding their personal risk.

That’s why so many people feel as they do now, that they were manipulated whilst others in the know partied or had affairs etc

That manipulation isn’t imagined it was the aim of the comms.

Your point about smoking campaigns shows that you were fine with those tactics. But others with lower risk than you perceive personally may not be after all for Covid.

I don't know that it will necessarily matter whether the UK was typical in our use of behavioural messaging, not when it comes to how people who didn't clock it at the time feel about the issue later on. It's possible, but it could also go completely the other way and make people feel even more angry and mistrustful.

I find it incredible that Spi-B thought that just because other cultures could be persuaded to make behavioural changes (such as masking) then so could the English. Have they ever met any English people?! Not the most biddable, I would venture to suggest. Plus anyone who has ever worked abroad or with people from other countries/cultures will tell you that different things do and don't work in different cultures - you simply can't make the sort of simplistic assumptions that Spi-B appear to have done.

Spi-b weren't consulted on the ad campaigns.

I don’t know if this is to a specific post but I wouldn’t have thought so, therefore not surprising

Behavioural stuff would be outside that

It was meant to be one of spi-b's roles to provide behavioural science advice to govt including that relating to public messaging. NHS also had to set up own campaign to tell people to seek help as they were concerned about govt's messaging.

covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents/transcript-of-module-2-public-hearing-on-31-october-2023/

Didn't feel manipulated into behaving in a certain way at all, the Govt used the law to limit what i could do - Holidays, Hospitality, WFH, Furlough, banning non essential travel, bans on using using public seating etc etc.

Where i do feel misled is that whilst these cunts were pontificating that we had to limit contact, there were having parties and trying to kid us all that Boris was dying, it must have felt like a huge practical joke to them all.

I never got the love for Whitty that we saw on here either, he was no better, as he knew what was going on but valued his job more.

It was all very Animal Farm. I also think there are examples of ministers across Europe behaving with the ‘we are all equal, but some are more equal than others’ type mentality. An emergency situation brings out the worst in human behaviour.

If you are following the current Covid enquiry, you will see that doesn't really seem to be the case. Whitty's scientific advice was consistently ignored by Johnson, Hancock and other politicians who all thought they knew better and didn't have much understanding of what they were being told.

Animal Farm is a great way of putting it.

The government are coming out of the enquiry looking like total idiots - didn’t know what they were doing, couldn’t work together and ignored any medical and scientific advice

Yes to 2, no to 4.

Example 1. An older family member successfully coming across as more capable than they were. When we finally got in their house in 2021, the conditions they were living in were horrific. We helped them move to sheltered accommodation within weeks. By then we weren't sure if they had dementia or were depressed because they were making awful decisions. We now think the isolation, lack of exercise (which led to mobility issues that are now ongoing) and lack of stimulation caused depression which resulted in their living situation.

Example 2. I could meet with another disabled family member in the park, but wasn't allowed to be around their husband at the same time who needed to accompany them so that they could get out in the first place.

Example 3. A family member died suddenly this year. I feel they had some of the precious last few years stolen from them and we lost out on precious time with them. However, they didn't die from covid so there is that.

Yes to 1,2,3,4 to me. Struggling to scroll back to find the post as just going to work

Are you disabled, including autistic or living with Downs Syndrome?
Yes autistic

Do you have any disabled family members?
Yes mum and nan registered disabled from arthritis. Nan is blind. Brother is profound deaf

Do you know someone who was hospitalised or killed by Covid?
Yes aunt. Neighbours husband both died. 2 other aunts hospitalised and survived

Do you support lockdown measures?
Yes. Overwhelmed Icu is something I never wish to experience again