The WhatsApp message leak

[Mycatsgoldtooth]

So, we’ve had the FBI saying it was a lab leak, the leaked messages showing many of the restrictions were for show, stats on the reality of masks being mostly useless unless N95s. Where are all the people that were so upset about anyone saying anything against the government now.

It’s almost as if no one care where the virus came from and how the government reacted. If I’d spent years being terrified and washing my shopping I’d be really pissed off.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/01/untruth-untruth-peddled-justify-great-lockdown-disaster/

You do know what the Cochrane review is, right?

Cochrane have very rigorous standards for their reviews and this one brought together randomised trials of mask use for influenza (or influenza like illnesses) with the few which have been done for Covid-19. It is not just one study?

@hamstersarse

There a very many studies that give evidence that they work. You’ll see if you search on Google scholar. Not just ‘feelings’.

The Cochrane review does all that for you - you don't need to go on google scholar

"We included 11 new RCTs and cluster‐RCTs (610,872 participants) in this update, bringing the total number of RCTs to 78. Six of the new trials were conducted during the COVID‐19 pandemic; two from Mexico, and one each from Denmark, Bangladesh, England, and Norway. We identified four ongoing studies, of which one is completed, but unreported, evaluating masks concurrent with the COVID‐19 pandemic."

I think it's completely fine for people to talk about feelings of security from wearing a mask or being around others who do. It's just it doesn't take away from the reality that after some rather massive population experiments over the last three years, there's still no evidence that they offer a benefit. But that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to have a personal take on them, just as it would still be fine for people to dislike wearing them even if we did have evidence that they were beneficial.

@hamstersarse

Critics have several issues with the Cochrane Review’s methodology. For example, just six of the 78 trials included were conducted during the COVID-19 pandemic. The others focus on other respiratory illnesses, like the flu. In a February subcommittee hearing, CDC director Rochelle Walensky listed this element as one of the review’s limitations

The authors acknowledge that these studies were “conducted in the context of lower respiratory viral circulation and transmission compared to Covid-19.”

However, beyond other methodology concerns, there are issues with expecting surgical masks to perform in a comparative way to respirators, noted Dr. Chin-Hong. Respirators like N95s and KN95s are designed to prevent airborne infections. Meanwhile, surgical masks are meant to block germ-filled droplets and splatters. Laboratory and observational studies consistently show that respirators outperform surgical masks when it comes to protecting the wearer from COVID-19.8

The Cochrane Review also does not include a random control trial comparing wearing an N95 with no mask.

“That’s a key question,” Dr. Schaffner said. “Maybe that study hasn’t happened, but I’m curious why they didn’t acknowledge in the review that this is a very important question to answer.”

Are we allowed to mention Sarah Everard for example, may she rest in peace? The woman who was walking home from a friend's house - some people on social media implied was breaking lockdown rules, which therefore meant she was somehow partly responsible for her own murder. And her murderer just happened to be a serving police officer, who had been handed "lockdown rules" as a pretext for getting her into his car.

She may very well have been breaking lockdown rules, which isn't a criticism of her. I broke them too. But I think that feeds into the point, actually.

If Sarah knew she was breaking the law, she might have felt she was bang to rights and that it was in her best interests to cooperate. Which it would've been, if she were and if it had been one of the non-rapist ones who'd stopped her. It was well known by then that the option existed to pay the fine quickly for an easy life. And lockdown rules, the restrictions based approach generally, created a climate where people knew they might get stopped by the police and questioned about what they were doing simply for being out of the house. We know from the message leaks that Hancock was pressuring the police into stricter enforcement, and he probably wasn't the only minister to do so.

@MinkyGreen

Given you didn't seem to know what the Cochrane review was, I am assuming you have copied and pasted that from another mask fan.

What is the actual problem in admitting the evidence for masks is flimsy, at best?

Why are you so invested in staying in your trench?

@hamstersarse

www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/yes-masks-reduce-risk-spreading-covid-despite-review-saying-they-dont

There is strong and consistent evidence for the effectiveness of masks and (even more so) respirators in protecting against respiratory infections. Masks are an important protection against serious infections.

Current COVID vaccines protect against death and hospitalisation, but do not prevent infection well due to waning vaccine immunity and substantial immune escape from new variants.

A systematic review is only as good as the rigour it employs in combining similar studies of similar interventions, with similar measurement of outcomes. When very different studies of different interventions are combined, the results are not informative.

Hancock was promoting a police state.

And we now know as well that significant parts of the Met and other police forces are rotten.

It seems to me now that, given what is emerging with these lockdown messages, that those ministers who exerted large amounts of control over our lives at the time had a dream come true scenario when Covid struck. Power over the plebs - yay! And it took very little time for them to realise this and use it to the max.

I love the way that Gavi article tells us that mask wearing increases when there are mask laws but leaves out the elephant in the room that there's no correlation between a society having mask laws and it controlling the spread of covid better lmao.

And lockdown rules, the restrictions based approach generally, created a climate where people knew they might get stopped by the police and questioned about what they were doing simply for being out of the house

This is why i felt i had to carry a printed copy of the rules for carers in my handbag #papersplease

My friend, who admittedly does have allergies, wheezed horrendously on a flight and for several days after from wearing a mask. Said it felt like the mask's fibers were being breathed in. It was awful.

Not mask allergies fyi, they just sadly don't have the strongest respiratory system.

@JenniferBooth i was stopped getting on the tube and asked to show my hospital letter going to a maternity appointment. But - we never had a proper lock down according to some people. Gosh poor sarah everard. That poor woman. I have liked Kate so much since she paid her respects like that, knowing she would have been advised against it and got a backlash.

I was really concerned about the micro-plastics in the (not actually) paper masks. Before I grew a pair and stopped refusing to wear one altogether, I wore a very loose-fitting cotton one. Would have done the sum total of fuck-all at preventing anything but it was all about looking like you were complying, wasn't it?

GAVI

The one that recommended 'double masking'. All in a serious voice.

@hamstersarse well said

@hamstersarse

Yes, but like I said - you can’t just take one report as the gold standard without considering any criticisms of that report.

Consensus opinion would involve essential peer review, and taking the report into account with other reports/ studies/ opinion globally that may agree/disagree.

Surely that’s true consensus?

Anyone remember the bloke who got told off for standing on his own doorstep

www.mumsnet.com/talk/coronavirus/3991985-Rape-survivors-being-castigated-for-not-wearing-masks

@JenniferBooth

No - but I do remember my teenage DN being on a Covid ward with an incredibly high temperature. I remember thinking it might be Leukaemia. It was in fact PIMS. I remember her and her Mum being absolutely terrified.

I remember my Mum being days away from death because her hospital was overwhelmed with Covid patients - I remember once she finally did get her surgery she wasn’t given pain relief as they were understaffed.

I remember my DN with labyrinthitis after having Covid and being unable to study for her exams.

I remember my sisters friends husband dying from Covid and leaving 2 young children without a father.

And I’m afraid it’s situations like this that made me see the importance of controlling Covid in any way I could try and help support.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3969784-A-little-more-understanding-to-those-not-wearing-masks-THREAD-TWO?flipped=1&page=1

I don't think I can even click on that link, it's honestly too upsetting to relive.

@MinkyGreen Im sorry you went through all that but do you really believe rape survivors being forced to wear masks would have prevented it.

Yep. Working class area, obv.