Push for masks to be reintroduced

[GerardusMercator]

Over the last few days I've noticed a big push in media to get masks back on the agenda. A brief foray into twitter and flick through a few Covid threads here, and I've seen all the old pandemic era versions of 'it's no hardship to mask'/ your selfish if you don't want to mask etc start to creep back in.

How many of you are-

1. Still masking now
2. Will mask if it becomes guidance
3. Will mask if it becomes law
4. Will not mask again under any circumstances

I really struggled with masks and don't believe they make a great deal of difference (covid theatre) so would be somewhere between a 3 and 4.

@TheKeatingFive

so you are basically saying that the various very, very highly qualified professors etc who have conducted these experiments have completely wasted their time. No point in ever doing anything in a lab - let’s just burn all labs everywhere.

Consensus is the basic tenet of science. It’s how you get a rocket to the moon safely - consensus thought.

Scientific consensus is the generally held judgment, position, and opinion of the majority or the supermajority of scientists in a particular field of study at any particular time.[1][2]

Consensus is achieved through scholarly communication at conferences, the publication process, replication of reproducible results by others, scholarly debate,[3][4][5][6] and peer review. A conference meant to create a consensus is termed as a consensus conference.[7][8][9] Such measures lead to a situation in which those within the discipline can often recognize such a consensus where it exists; however, communicating to outsiders that consensus has been reached can be difficult, because the "normal" debates through which science progresses may appear to outsiders as contestation.

The study shows masks make more than a "limited impact". Only someone determined to keep their head in the sand would say something so nonsensical.

That study talks mostly about the 'potential' of masks to impact, if improved by various means. It is very guarded about making any big claims as things stand and it's also very clear about the limitations of things like lab based data being used in these meta analyses. I found it a good, balanced read however.

so you are basically saying that the various very, very highly qualified professors etc who have conducted these experiments have completely wasted their time. No point in ever doing anything in a lab - let’s just burn all labs everywhere.

come on now, don't be silly.

I'm saying the conditions of lab based work for a topic like this is very far from real life application and therefore may not be very helpful for studying the real life impact.

Is that really so difficult to get your head around? I would have thought it was obvious.

Real world evidence here @TheKeatingFive

www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1422/rr-13

www.forbes.com/sites/johndrake/2022/02/04/the-real-world-effectiveness-of-face-masks-against-covid-19/?sh=701d755c1d08

www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/09/03/real-world-evidence-shows-face-masks-reduce-covid-19s-spread

www.obgproject.com/2022/02/24/real-world-data-how-do-mask-types-stack-up-against-sars-cov-2/

None of those seem to be omicron however. Which marked a significant change in transmissibility.

I wear a mask where one is required. Like hospital, doctors. Not sure if it's all health settings but our area like us to wear them so I just pop one on.

Wow.

You'd actually knowingly infect people? Including those who can't wear masks due to disability/health conditions which make them more vulnerable to covid?

Let me guess - you're one of those lovely people who care about the wellbeing of vulnerable people and therefore think everyone should wear masks to protect them, right?

But if you're not infectious, and you're covering your mouth when you cough, what's the issue? Do you seriously expect people on certain medication (and there are millions on BP meds) not to leave the house or to wear masks everywhere?

Were you this upset about people coughing prior to covid?

@TheKeatingFive

But we are not just talking about Omicron. Tripledemic. And even if Omicron evades a cloth mask better than Delta, the NHS (consensus thought) are not saying ditch them. They are saying the opposite. Or get a better face mask.

Trusting consensus science is not naive - it’s just how science works. For my safety : do I believe the 95% opinion or the 5% opinion from unreliable sources. I’d say trusting the 5% opinion - and persuading other to - is not only naive but harmful.

This is the conclusion of the study:

"Modeling studies, including this analysis, have estimated how face masks can reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and make a major impact at the population level, even with varying levels of adherence and effectiveness of masks. Multiple public health interventions are needed to reduce the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and, as our analysis shows, robust use of face masks is an important contributor. Face masks of various materials have the potential to substantially reduce transmission in the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic, depending on the type and fit of mask and the percentage adoption in the population. Furthermore, by attempting a more exact quantitation of the impact of masking, studies like this can show, for example, that for highly contagious new variants, such as the Delta and Omicron variants of concern, masks alone are not enough to contain the outbreak, and other control strategies are needed (e.g. social distancing, hand washing, and vaccination). Public outreach and policies encouraging mask wearing, especially highly efficacious masks such as N95 and KF94, need to be encouraged along with other prevention strategies. In fact, this study suggests that even the imperfect use of masks over the course of the pandemic has likely reduced both cases and deaths significantly."

Like I mentioned above, masks need to be used alongside other measures. This study - in the Omicron era as you wished - is clear on the obvious benefits of masks.

Additionally, it doesn't appear to be lab-based.

3, but they are still required on public transport where I live, they never went away.

I mask on public transport and in work (healthcare) and crowded settings. So far so good, haven’t had ailments at all during the pandemic so happy to wear one as I don’t miss the various illnesses I now see likely came from public transport in the first place for the most part. It’s always been in my job that If someone has a known respiratory illness like flu you mask around them and they mask 🤷🏼‍♀️ To me it wasn’t really too big a change wearing one in extra settings. I don’t think anyone should be forced to wear one but the type and quality of masks matter. I think when people find them useless it’s often that they have been using face coverings rather than an actual high quality fit for purpose protective mask that is used correctly. Honestly, at this stage of things I’m happy that wearing one protects me but it dosent concern me if others are not wearing one because I feel quite protected wearing my own.🤷🏼‍♀️

Nail. On. The. Head. 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

@GerardusMercator
@JohnPrescottsPyjamas

The government are shit, but I trust the scientific advice. The global consensus scientific opinion on masks.

On a side note, I remember talk at the end of the last mask mandate that the FFP3 / N95 masks actually protected the wearer themselves. If this is the case then there's no good reason why those who want to retain masks for all time/ every winter could wear the higher grade masks and 'protect' themselves is there?

“It's window dressing, it would be far better for people to be encouraged and able (financially) to stay at home when ill. The government already had this opportunity when lifting restrictions, and they didn't want to do it.”

this

I agree op, there does seem to be a media push towards mask wearing again. The cynic in me feels that there must be another agenda, something political maybe.

I will only wear one if legally mandated to.

I think the salient point is that not everyone who doesn't want masks reintroduced is a rabid conspiracy theorist, and to suggest so is just wrong. Othering people in this very patronising 'you're so thick' way (as evidenced by that dreadful Q and A article above), will just alienate people further. It's hardly surprising that people have serious questions / doubts after the last 3 year shitshow is it?

I’m cev, shielded for a year, avoid people, always wear a mask, and have just avoided being hospitalised by getting covid, I’m sick to death of standing in a queue at the chemist with somebody getting as close as possible to me and coughing in my face with no mask, not putting a hand or tissue over their face, and thinking it’s ok. It’s disgusting. Even wearing a mask myself does not stop someone infected spit going in my eyes!

But your spit is still going onto someone else when you cough…. Whether it’s infected or not. It’s grim.

How is my spit going on to someone else when I cough into my elbow or a tissue? 🙄

I cough all year round because of allergies, I'm not permanently wearing a mask because people who never bothered before suddenly decide I'm a public health risk!

@GerardusMercator

The point is that the NHS is in a state of collapse, and we should be doing what we can to prevent transmission.

I’m sorry - but the posters on here who are trying to devalue the efficacy of masks - are simply not backed up by robust scientific data.

So if you are distrusting the science, if you don’t believe it - what’s the alternative? Definition wise - you are falling into that category of : opposition to the mainstream consensus.

A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that asserts the existence of a conspiracy by powerful or sinister groups, often political in motivation,[3][4][5] especially when other explanations are more probable.[3][6][7] The term generally has a negative connotation, implying that the appeal of a conspiracy theory is based in prejudice, emotional conviction, and insufficient evidence.[8] A conspiracy theory is distinct from a conspiracy; it refers to a hypothesized conspiracy with specific characteristics, including but not limited to opposition to the mainstream consensus among those who are qualified to evaluate its accuracy, such as scientists or historians.

I’m not saying necessarily ‘rabid’ - but it’s not a viewpoint based on consensus thought.

I favour the article because I firmly believe that doing what I can to prevent transmission is the right thing to do. As do most people in society. Most people would wear a mask if asked, say in a healthcare setting where people are in a vulnerable situation.

Thank you - exactly my point. 👍

We also need to be aware that governments will always promote and appoint experts that support their particular point of view. There were plenty of fully qualified and very able experts who were disregarded and even discredited because they didn’t agree with the political agenda. Matt Hancock has openly admitted that this indeed was the case.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas

So then if you think things here are iffy - you look at other comparable countries globally - and you can see that the message was pretty much the same.

You look at the most robust global scientific data. You look for peer reviewed research. They give the consensus opinion that feeds medical guidelines across our country, across Europe - globally.

Not your niche discredited scientists who just happen to fit your own personal agenda. Otherwise you are just doing exactly the same yourself - as what you accuse ‘the government’ of doing. And that would be hypocrisy - right??

I think the thing is there’s a big difference between not wanting any sort of mask mandate, for various perfectly rational reasons, and claiming that masks just don’t work in the real world and rejecting all evidence that they do.
I wouldn’t want to see a mask mandate at the moment, but that doesn’t mean I think they don’t work.