Push for masks to be reintroduced

[GerardusMercator]

Over the last few days I've noticed a big push in media to get masks back on the agenda. A brief foray into twitter and flick through a few Covid threads here, and I've seen all the old pandemic era versions of 'it's no hardship to mask'/ your selfish if you don't want to mask etc start to creep back in.

How many of you are-

1. Still masking now
2. Will mask if it becomes guidance
3. Will mask if it becomes law
4. Will not mask again under any circumstances

I really struggled with masks and don't believe they make a great deal of difference (covid theatre) so would be somewhere between a 3 and 4.

fuck all happened to people who didn’t wear them last time so I just won’t bother. I am back to the common sense approach to going out when ill I had in 2019. I don’t think expecting people to wear masks to “protect the vulnerable” is a reasonable ask. If people are concerned then they can buy quality masks that will protect them. Their health is not my problem ot responsibility

but yes, I’d wear one in a healthcare setting, provided by them. I’m not spending money on them again.

I understand perfectly well: I just don’t particularly care

@MichaelFabricantWig

I actually really admire your honesty there:“The health of the vulnerable is not my problem. I understand but I don’t care.”

Without the usual bollocks used by others to justify this stance : the government are making things up and the science is wrong.

Omicron data was there.

Perhaps, but the methodology didn't separate out the findings, making conclusions on omicron specifically impossible.

@TheKeatingFive

But masks are being advised not only for Omicron, but for a triple whammy of Covid/Flu/RSV. And the conclusion of the various scientific studies is NOT that masks are ineffective - don’t wear one. It’s the complete opposite.

But masks are being advised not only for Omicron, but for a triple whammy of Covid/Flu/RSV.

I have never stated that masks are not effective for any illness, I've been interested in their efficacy for covid.

And the conclusion of the various scientific studies is NOT that masks are ineffective - don’t wear one. It’s the complete opposite.

The conclusion of the study conflates data from a range of stages from the pandemic, so isn't particularly clear on their efficacy for omicron specifically.

Perhaps for those who choose not to accept it in the first instance.

Perhaps for those who choose not to accept it in the first instance

Well I do think it's important to understand what the research is actually looking at. How can we draw conclusions about omicron specifically when that data is never separated from the rest?

@TheKeatingFive

“lots of reasons they might recommend masks despite the fact they don't work. To make a political point, to make it feel like somethings being done, to appease various groups who are shouting loudly.

The bottom line is that the data doesn't support their efficacy.”

So where you are stating that upthread “they don’t work, the data doesn’t support their efficacy” - perhaps you want to clarify exactly what you mean - as you now seem to be saying something quite different…. You mean just Omicron? But even there : no scientific paper is coming back saying “they don’t work/don’t wear one”. I think it’s really, really bad that you are trying to infer that you are inferring/trying to highlight to others that ‘studies’ are concluding that masks are ineffective/unnecessary - when the total opposite is true. It’s not JUST omicron that is a concern. It’s Covid/RSV/Flu - and all the overwhelming conclusion from major studies is : mask wearing is effective.

It’s not JUST Omicron that is the problem. But you seem to be trying to find a loophole to support an anti mask stance.

Why would you want to assert or manipulate the findings of a study in a way that could harm the health of others - if they happen to believe what you are saying??

It’s not JUST Omicron that is the problem

I was really clear on this thread that I hadn't seen any data that supports ordinary masks wearing being effective against omicron. That still stands as this study doesn't allow any conclusions to be drawn about omicron.

I agree the goalposts have been changed, but I don't think it's by me. If we're talking about non covid illnesses, then that is a different debate, agreed.

However, mask mandates have never been part of a public health response to flu or other respiratory diseases before now and I don't see why they should change without a comprehensive review of the cost/benefit analysis of masks. Vaccination against flu for the vulnerable has always been the public health response and that still seems sensible.

I also take issue with this idea that masks should be adopted to 'take pressure off' the nhs, when taking responsibility for health in terms of diet, fitness and general lifestyle has never been particularly stressed before. We need much wider debates about how the nhs can be improved and responsibility for health increased, rather than just 'masks'.

And while I am against a mask mandate, of course people should wear medical grade masks if they want to. Entirely their choice.

That's the problem though, there isn't much common sense about this. I use public transport five days a week at the moment and it's grim. People coughing without covering their mouths, using their fingers to wipe snot off their noses, constantly sneezing... I had really hoped the public health messages during covid times would make a difference but no, some people don't seem to care. Can only assume they were never taught? I find myself instinctively covering my mouth even if I cough when home alone.

So for that reason I'm wearing FFP2 masks on public transport where I'm stuck with these people for up to 20 minutes at a time.

@TheKeatingFive

At least we can agree now that mask wearing is effective against very many respiratory illnesses. That’s good.

I think we all want to be a free society and to make our own choices - whether we chose/chose not to wear a mask. The problem is the near and present danger -which is currently the tripledemic. I’d much rather a situation where hospitals are well resourced enough to cope with seasonal ill health - but that’s very much not the case.

Even if I think I’d things purely from my perspective, we are all pretty much in good health - but if one of us gets seriously ill, am I actually going to be able to access adequate and timely care in my local hospital? If can do anything now to hopefully relieve that pressure - for an occasion when I may need it - then I will.

At least we can agree now that mask wearing is effective against very many respiratory illnesses. That’s good.

I haven't agreed that. I just don't know, I haven't looked into it in any detail.

If can do anything now to hopefully relieve that pressure - for an occasion when I may need it - then I will.

Cool, you do you. Others may not be convinced of the cost/benefits or are focused instead on looking after themselves generally to take pressure off - and they should do them.

A total review and overhaul of the nhs is badly needed, but unfortunately there is no political will to do so.

I'm not convinced masks do much but I'm not pro or anti. I would wear one if mandated too.

@TheKeatingFive

I was really clear on this thread that I hadn't seen any data that supports ordinary masks wearing being effective against omicron. That still stands as this study doesn't allow any conclusions to be drawn about omicron.

It does, actually. But the study doesn't endorse ordinary masks - and by that I mean cloth masks - nor were they studied in detail past Delta as far as I could tell. N95 masks are particularly effective against all lineages of Covid. However, no-one is suggesting that masks alone can constitute defence. They need to be used alongside other forms of viral protection such as social distancing, air purification and vaccination.

But the study doesn't endorse ordinary masks - and by that I mean cloth masks

Well yes, that's my point, looks like we agree

N95 masks are particularly effective against all lineages of Covid

But that's not analogous to the mask wearing done by the general population at any point. If the data supports anything, it's a much more intense version of what people have previously understood by a mask mandate. I can see no buy in, either among the general population or the political leaders for that.

Though of course, individuals can make the choice to wear them if they wish.

Social distancing is obviously a term that can have many meanings, can you tell us what you're thinking of here?

Social distancing means many businesses can't function, people will lose their livelihoods (again), you won't be able to visit people's homes, much of hospitality will have to close, theatres can't open...

Social distancing isn't just standing a metre apart in the Tesco queue.

Social distancing is ridiculous. No one can seriously be suggesting that 3 years in with a highly effective vaccine that this is in any way justified

Agree social distancing is ridiculous. Are advocates of it wanting to go back to the taping off of children's play parks, cancelling leisure and sports activities? What about the things at the start like reliance on the good will of others to do shopping etc for neighbours if they then step up to the isolation level? Is their any goodwill left for that? I'm thinking not after seeing the 'selfishness' (that bloody word will always link to covid for me!) Of people who did the 'I'm alright Jack I'm vaccinated' now at the start and wanted those who hadn't been to be banned from public spaces despite weeks before being reliant on their assistance.

Social distancing isn't just standing a metre apart in the Tesco queue.

Although even that would be completely unworkable at this point. The supermarkets aren't going to accept the labour and responsibility required to enforce it.

But in fairness to the poster she may mean something else.

@SirMingeALot

Social distancing is obviously a term that can have many meanings, can you tell us what you're thinking of here?

Meaning simply leaving a comfortable distance between yourself and strangers when in enclosed spaces when possible, eg. shops, public transport, queues. Doing this in addition to wearing masks helps minimise infection further.

A highly effective vaccine that most of us under 50 now have no access to in this country. It's been over a year since my booster.