If you could go back in time, would you still get the jab?

[Quweenie]

If you could go back in time, would you still get the Covid jab?

I don’t really care if you’re vaccinated or not, but I’m interested if people would go back and change their decision?

I meant unvaccinated! I was doing swipey type on my phone.

Even now you can't mention how the vaccine doesn't really work like you would expect a vaccine to work

I think this is the nub of the problem, so many people just dont seem to have any understanding of how a vaccine is expected to work. Exactly like this one, decreases your chances of getting an illness, and the severity if you do get it. No immunisation is 100%.

( and this is actually an immunisation - not a vaccine - but has become commonly called a vaccine, so I dont really have any issue with it being referred to as such)

some immunisations give protection as low as 20%, however on a population scale, that is very significant, and saves thousands of lives.

There are new immunisations being developed all the time, not normally as fast as this one, but that was because so much more resources were made available.

But it isn't the newest now, and it works at a fairly standard rate, it is just that people dont realise what a standard rate is

But we were led to believe that they were almost 100% effective, no one made that up, we were fed that information. They have been called vaccines all along including by the NHS.
On an individual level I believe people are right to question whether the benefits out weigh the potential side effects for healthy people in very low risk groups.

Calling a group of people asking these questions 'anti vaxxer conspiracy theorists' when most of these people would have had (and taken their children to have) the effective and well tested immunisations offered in childhood is a deliberate attempt to shut them down by shaming. Questioning these vaccines is nothing like being an 'anti vaxxer' in general.
This vaccination program isn't even similar, how many times have you heard someone say "I had Polio once, then I had the vaccine three times, then I got Polio again and gave it to my husband...... but I'm sure it would have made me worse had I not had all of those vaccines."

@itwasntmetho

Really? Because that was never, ever my understanding at all. That it would be almost 100% effective. Similarly the flu vaccine is required every year. Vaccines would work differently depending on the type of virus it is offering protection against. It’s not a one fit all scenario.

Ive said it time and time again upthread, but consensus opinion is the basic tenet of science. It’s just how science works! It is fluid and changes when robust evidence becomes available. There is no robust, peer reviewed, credible evidence that challenges the current consensus opinion that : vaccines are safe and effective. So you go with that! Rather than people’s hunches/anecdotal evidence/fringe science which hasn’t been properly verified. Globally, people with far better brains than me/far more highly qualified have given that consensus opinion. And it’s the huge, huge majority opinion. And it feeds the NHS guidelines!

I remember many articles like these.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54902908 Nearly 95%

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58257863 93%

Of course. I had covid, wasn't pleasant, wouldn't have wanted it to be worse thanks

@itwasntmetho

The article states that it’s not known how long immunity will last or if it just stops people becoming severely ill or if it stops spread.

I don’t know what current exact percentage figures are : but any credible source will give the same info. Safe and effective. That is the consensus opinion. If sufficient robust evidence becomes available to challenge that, then the consensus opinion will change.

I would never expect whatever was stated in 2020 to be rigid and exactly how things are presenting now. Viruses mutate. Different factors come into play. And it gets reviewed, analysed and if the NHS advice needs to change - then it does!

"safe and effective"

Doubtless safe but effective? i'd really like to see comparisons with the Omicron (supposedly mild) spread in china and africa (majority unvacinated) with the spread in uk etc.

Our hospitals are full of people with CV, as are NHS staff, has it reduced spread or severity?

My whole bringing that up was a response to the poster that said...
"some immunisations give protection as low as 20%, however on a population scale, that is very significant, and saves thousands of lives."
Implying in the same post that the real problem is that us plebs just don't understand what a vaccine is supposed to be.

We were deliberately led to believe that the 'vaccine' was highly effective, of course people will weigh up the risks/ benefits again when side effects become known, the virus itself becomes weaker and less of a threat to life and the effectiveness of the vaccine transpires to be lower than first suggested.

@GPTec1

So I’d say your observations would also be picked up be others - and be researched/analysed and if the majority scientific opinion agrees, the advice would change. But that’s not happening/not yet happening - so the safest thing to advise the global population on what HAS been most thoroughly tested and scrutinised. Like I said earlier - if science was based on hunches or observations, or fringe studies - is that more or less likely to be safer than : consensus scientific thought which has the most robust, peer reviewed, most highly scrutinised evidence.

@itwasntmetho

I don’t understand it - it’s so highly complex. I accept that I’m not sufficiently well qualified or educated to advise against consensus thought.

Yes absolutely. I'm so so lucky that as a family we came through unscathed but a friend's father died from Covid and another friend had it before vaccines and she still has significant breathing issues today. I'm CEV and wouldn't have done well unvaccinated but when I caught it after vaccines I was only mildly ill. Im very thankful to be vaccinated.

itwasntmetho, 50% of our family had it but luckily we were all nice to each other even though there were very strong gives (those not having it regarded as killers etc). However I never said the vaccine didn't work, simply that it was not one I would be having any time soon. I would have had it had it been like a measles one - for life and completely effective. I knew as indeed did everyone includind doctors back in 2020 that it would be like the flu one (which I don't choos to have ) that you pick one popular strain each year and give it to the vulnerable but that it provides no protection against different flus never mind colds. So on that basis it was not for me.

It is a pity I don't get a massive discount on my taxes given I did not support lockdowns nor all that furlough money so many people got but there you are, 8.15am on a Sunday working half the day to pay the state in direct taxes and the most of the other half for all the indirect taxes; with the nation saddled with massive debts for a generation.

It is a pity I don't get a massive discount on my taxes given I did not support lockdowns nor all that furlough money so many people got but there you are, 8.15am on a Sunday working half the day to pay the state in direct taxes and the most of the other half for all the indirect taxes; with the nation saddled with massive debts for a generation.

There you go that's a democracy for you. We vote and then pay our taxes to who ever wins. Even if you didn't like what they choose to do with it.

I feel like I'd like a discount on any of my taxes that went towards Brexit tbh.

Doubtless safe but effective? i'd really like to see comparisons with the Omicron (supposedly mild) spread in china and africa (majority unvacinated) with the spread in uk etc.

Pretty sure that the science world, particularly the coronavirus world will be looking at this and chewing the data.

sun I was a remainer too so would be in for the tax refund for being Anti Brexit too!

..never mind that I have used the NHS for about 15 minutesi nthe last 15 years because I don't get sick so I call those my £100,000 a time GP appointments given the tax I have paid into them..... Perhaps 10% income tax of Bulgaria will tempt me to move once the children are off my hand.

I probably would have had the first two but stopped at that. After the 3rd one which I had in early2022 I got covid and very shortly after started getting random occasional neuro problems and then after the 4th one started with acute back of head headaches plus dizziness /lightheaded ness and chronic pins and needles and one sided leg heaviness - very debilitating- my blood pressure rocketed too and am now on statins and beta blockers. Bloods and X-rays only showing up high cholesterol, high blood pressure - neither of which I had before. Whether this was covid or the vaccine or completely unrelated and a total coincidence I couldn't say , but I would certainly think twice now about going above the initial 2(which I had no problems with)

I read A State of Fear by Laura Dodsworth and it made me question how much of what has happened in the last few years has been reflective of a well functioning democracy. Decisions were often not voted on by MPs , a huge amount of information was censored, there was virtually no opposition from any party, the mainstream media only ever asked questions like "shouldn't we be locking down sooner/harder etc." Also there was a huge amount of "nudging" going on from the behavioral scientists, one of whom even bragged that they'd had to nudge Boris into wearing a mask (www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11605951/amp/Boris-Johnson-subliminally-shamed-wearing-mask-Covid-pandemic.html). I think it's really important we ask these questions because, as Lord Sumption says, democracies are fragile.

@AreYouVeryAnti

Its not a scientific book - she mixes up the terms pandemic and epidemic numerous times. So if there is an ‘agenda’ other than public safety - an agenda that is causing governments globally to instil fear into their citizens - what is that agenda exactly?

And I see L.Dodsworth chums up with the likes of Nigel Farage. And Neil Oliver.

I’d give that book a very wide berth.

I don't want to seem rude MinkyGreen, but you're very dismissive of anyone who apposes your 'views' on here.
There really is so much more information coming out about untruths told and exaggerations to get people to comply and be fearful that if they as much got a 'whiff' of Covid they'd be dead.
A lot more has come to light about side effects of the 'vaccines' and a clearer picture is emerging of who was/is really at risk. There's been a lot of backtracking from companies/scientists about the 'promises' of what the vaccine was going to achieve.
Considering how much the government and the media lie about things, surely it's important for people to be looking to question things rather than just accepting that everything is ok and the vaccines are 'good'.

@clarcats

I’m all for questioning things, but it concerns me when people make false claims and peddle misinformation. It’s harmful to others.

If things are ‘coming to light’ as you say, then that evidence needs to be thoroughly tested, researched, analysed before trying to persuade others it is ‘fact’. And that’s simply not happening. You may come across a YouTube video, or social media group, or fringe study that claims otherwise - but until that claim has global scientific backing from a range of sources - it’s not safe to advise against the NHS guidelines.

Why fo you think you have better knowledge than consensus global medical opinion?

What assurance do you have that fringe sources or alternative think tanks or social media echo chambers have better credibility and more robustly regulated than global medical opinion?

The government and the media may lie - but that doesn’t mean global scientific consensus opinion is also a lie, and that the NHS guidelines are a lie. And yes - I will be dismissive if others try to encourage ideas that are unsafe or unhealthy to others.

@clarcats Minky is in a state of denial, driven by fear.

Idk about denial, but Minky does employ some manipulative tactics to belittle anyone with critical thinking.

Smearing by association - They know Nigel Farage, the constant repetition of the term misinformation/ harmful, portraying alternate viewpoints as persuasive when they are just questioning and not telling anyone else what to do, the wide eyed confusion about how anyone would get the idea that Covid vaccines were to be more effective in the first place.

My personal favourite lumping in anyone questioning the safety or effectiveness of the vaccine with someone who would recommend a backstreet butcher perform surgery on you!

I believe that Minky does believe what they are saying, but the way people have learned to be so sneary an patronising and blow up personal viewpoints as dangerous to shut them down is 100% what leftist media turns you into.

I have no dog in this fight but @MinkyGreen seems to have a good grasp of critical thinking and does not use over-emotive language such as "untruths" and "exaggerations to get people to comply and be fearful that if they as much got a 'whiff' of Covid they'd be dead".