For those that are NOT vaxxed - would you get vaxxed only for travel?

[WoodlandWalks123]

I chose not to get vaccinated (I am in low risk category and already had covid). I don’t want to get into the pros and cons of that choice.

Now, DP booked me and DM on a luxury cruise as a surprise present - which would be so lovely and DM is really looking forward to it - it’s a bit of a once in a lifetime sort of thing to be able to go on this / spend time with her and I’ve got it in my mind that life is short and unsure when we would go again.

When he booked, the rules were that from April all vaccination rules would end. Now they have changed their terms and require double vaxx. They will refund money if we cancel due to this change so there is a get out. My DM is vaxxed but obviously I am not.

I am genuinely nervous about getting vaccinated when it’s just so new (in relative vaccine terms) and we don’t know long term effects, and the mRNA technology is also unknown. I am not a die hard anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist.

I feel that I would only be doing it for this cruise - general air travel / country requirements seem to be opening up and not requiring vaccines increasingly so I don’t think I would need it to go abroad in the fullness of time.

If you have chosen not to be vaccinated, would you get vaccinated to go on a once in a lifetime (but only 4 day) cruise? Or would you get a refund? If you would get vaccinated, which of the vaccines do you think is most benign?

@Robinni : you say "the purpose of vaccination is to primarily to reduce morbidity and mortality. Not to give sterilising immunity". The average age of people died with Covid is 80. Then why the vaccines are required for travelling of younger people?

@Lily7050 because those who are vaccinated are much less likely to contract covid.
If you don’t catch it, you can’t transmit it.

Less people with Covid = less transmission = less death/less evolution to produce problematic strains/less importation of problematic strains in the first place.

And it’s not “I say”, it’s a fundamental principle of vaccinology…. 🤣

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30579659/

Yes the holy grail is to block all transmission, but that is not really the main goal. It’s still reducing it substantially by blocking a large number of infections and reducing the likelihood of people who do contract it passing it on

Also the viral load is still depressed comparably to those who were infected with delta strains…. You transmit a whopping viral load and you are more likely to land somebody else in hospital…

Vaccinated = less likely to get covid, if you get it peak viral load is reduced and you shed virus to the environment for a lesser amount of time. Therefore you are less likely to infect somebody else and even if you do it’s less likely they will become very ill because, to use an analogy of alcohol, you have hit them with a beer strength dose of covid, rather than an absinthe strength dose of covid.

So all of that is why it is still important to be vaccinated and other countries do not want unvaccinated parading about.

@Robinni : how about people who has recovered from Covid? They would have immunity. Why do they still required to have vaccines?

Short answer: no.

@weneedtotalkaboutezra I make nothing up. Any reputable scientist has said that -repeatedly. If you want to believe rubbish instead that's your call.

@Lily7050 Those who have recovered from Covid dont have immunity. They get reinfected although they are less likely to get infected than someone who has never had covid. . Most countries will accept a recovery certificate from a doctor if you have had covid recently (usually last 90 days) but after that your "immunity" will be waning.

I've had a full schedule of Covid vaccinations but if I hadn't for some reason then I would definitely get them for travel if required. It's not a new concept, I've travelled to places that have had either required or recommended vaccines and I've always got the vaccines without much thought.

"Those who have recovered from Covid dont have immunity. They get reinfected although they are less likely to get infected than someone who has never had covid. . Most countries will accept a recovery certificate from a doctor if you have had covid recently (usually last 90 days) but after that your "immunity" will be waning."

Those who have recovered from covid do have some immunity. If they didn't they would still have covid but their body has mounted enough immune response to fight off covid and as a result they have recovered. Their immunity will wane over time and won't necessarily be much help against different variants, but never the less they will have some immunity.

@weneedtotalkaboutezra your risk as a middle age woman from covid is, imo, long covid.
Stats show that about 10% of people who catch covid end up with LC. It’s a debilitating illness with no cure atm (and I’d say we are very far from a ‘cure’ too from the complexity of the illness and the state if research with comparable illnesses such as ME/CFS).
Thats 10% of people affected even when they’ve had a very mild case of covid.

There is also a potential that covid will lead to severe illness later on (as in years) just by looking at the effect of a very common virus (EBV) that is known to lead to lupus for example several years later.

Now I have ME/CFS and have had that for years now. I see people talking about LC and how it affects them. In the same that ME/CFS is affecting me and other sufferers. The effect it has on people’s life is such that the main cause of deaths of ME sufferers is suicide… There is no cure either.

So yes, because I know how horrible a life like this could be, I would really encourage everyone to protect themselves from LC, more than from covid actually (middle aged, no conditions etc…). At least vaccines seems to be diminishing the 10% of LC sufferers to less than 5%. Maybe it also reduces severity. I’d take that.

I am unvaccinated and am simply chosing my holiday destinations accordingly. It's not even like it's necessary in order to go abroad, it's just unfortunate that you've got cruise booked, which is not something that would interest me anyway.

@Lily7050

Because the duration of protection after a natural infection is less predictable. And reinfection risk is higher after a natural infection.

With the vaccine a standard dose is given and duration of protection can be quantified within given parameters because it has been studied in those already vaccinated.

The British Society for Immunology prepared a pretty nifty infographic which explains the difference between naturally acquired protection vs. vaccination.
www.immunology.org/coronavirus/connect-coronavirus-public-engagement-resources/covid-immunity-infection-vaccine

Reinfection risk is higher following a natural infection
www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know

Also, and I’m sure you’re aware of this, hybrid protection (natural infection + jab) gives the best protection of all.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00961-3

Admittedly they are awaiting data on omicron to see if it still ties in with previous data.

Several papers have concluded that natural infection is on a par with vaccination and should be considered for public health policy.
www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00143-8/fulltext
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935122002389

However there are inconsistencies in the data, research on hybrid immunity is pretty strong and from what I can see based on 2 dose regime, many people have boosters now.

All in all the majority scientific consensus is that vaccination is the way to go. If evidence suggests it’s unsafe or not required it won’t be recommended…

Yes unvaxxed are annoyed about travel. But many countries could not economically withstand another lockdown at all, or simply do not want the negative impacts of outbreaks. So I think you have to respect they want to do everything they can to lower infection levels.

@alreadytaken

“Those who have recovered from Covid dont have immunity.”

Sorry but this is wrong, those who’ve had infection do have immunity. Results are inconsistent anything from 3 months to a year.

Vaccine gives a more consistent profile and a longer duration of protection. Reinfection risk is lower also.

Vaccination in combination with natural infection may give the best protection.

Please see my post above in response to @Lily7050 for more information.

@alreadytaken immunity also wanes with vaccination; this is partly why breakthrough infections occur, and why we have boosters.

@weneedtotalkaboutezra

@AMindOfMyOwn is right on long covid, it’s really not fun.

Here’s the link to the paper that figure came from if anyone wants to read more or see it more clearly - sorry it was a bit fuzzy!

www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95565-8

Results from various big studies won’t be out for a few years, initial data is showing the raft of symptoms above and also things like heightened risk of dementia and respiratory, vascular issues in later life.
Basically Joe Bloggs is wandering around thinking everything is fine, but will get a shock in a few years when newspapers start reporting on outcomes of long covid studies.

@Robinni & @alreadytaken : immunity from vaccines last the same or even less that as from covid itself, approx. 3 months. That's why boosters will be offered forever.

@Lily7050

Yes Covid is a pretty serious disease, so it is important to retain protection against it via boosters.

At the moment, where there is still a 20% chance that Covid will mutate to produce a variant more lethal than anything we have seen so far, having fairly frequent boosters for the whole population is a sensible thing to do.

We are still mid pandemic. Being sensible is a good thing.

Long term I would suspect they will switch to an annual vaccination akin to flu, targeting vulnerable groups as the virus attenuates in time. If the virus continues to induce sufficient pathology so as to warrant such a course of action.

Is there a point to any of this vaccines are terrible whining? 90% of population have gone for it - which is what is keeping our economy open and our health service functioning.

If anyone is vaccine hesitant as OP, that is their decision and they are entitled to have it. But unfortunately it may - while we are mid pandemic - limit what they are able to do. Just as the clinically vulnerable are still quite restricted. This is the way it is at the moment and moaning about it or trying to enforce beliefs on to other people isn’t helpful. Live and let live.

No. But then I doubt UK caravan holidays would ever have a vaccine requirement.

Nope. I would absolutely not get the vaccine just to travel. I'm unvaccinated and will remain that way. It's not necessary for me and has proven so - like the majority of the U.K. population I got covid (finally after 2 years of not getting it), and i was virtually asymptomatic. Got a lower back ache for a day (that coincided with my period so I thought it was cramps) and then I was totally fine. Not ill in the slightest and worked from home throughout the 10 days I tested positive. Then got it a couple months later again when my second DC brought it home. I didn't even know I had it - only tested because the school said 3 children in the classes tested positive. I got a rash. That's it. Only tested positive for 5 days the second time. Of all the people I've known who've had covid the vaccinated people felt worse than the unvaccinated people. I'll be sticking to holidays in the U.K. and to countries abroad who've scrapped their stupid rules.

I am vaxxed but travel is one of the primary reasons I got vaxxed. I knew it might be difficult to travel without them and travel is important to me.

That’s absolute BS
studies have shown that you can have at least 18 yrs protection, if not longer!

Yes , every vaccinated person I know had it bad

I'm vaccinated and I did not have it bad, it was barely a cold. Anecdotes of people you know are not helpful at all, it's the wider data you need to take into account.

I’ve seen the wider data but I don’t think it’s allowed on here otherwise I would show you.

DS is vaccinated and only got a rash, I suspect if he had been unvaccinated it would have been similar, he also had covid when he was unvaccinated and just felt tired and a bit off. I doubt in healthy young people it makes much difference whether you are vaccinated or not.

Why wouldn't it be allowed on here? Of course genuine data is allowed. Unless it's from some propaganda website, in which case it would be untrue bullshit anyway.