Independent sage condemn lifting of restrictions

[RocketFire7]

I see that independent sage have condemned the government’s plan to lift restrictions this week, saying that it’s not driven by the science.

Are the vulnerable being thrown to the wolves as they are claiming?

However on the other hand independent sage have been against every reduction in restrictions that’s taken place. They’ve also called for lockdowns in December 2021, September 2021 among others.

Are they correct in this situation?

twitter.com/independentsage/status/1494629238598733831?s=21

The current isolation measures failed to protect the most privileged individual in the country, a person who has no need to see anyone not heavily vetted, do any work, visit any place, despite them being in theory vulnerable.

Those same measures failed to prevent well over 1/3rd of the population getting infected. Whatever the need for preventing infection, these measures DO NOT WORK.

Measures which have failed so much are not fit for purpose, any fools keep doing the same thing when it's failed to achieve anything for months now.

So, more measures that would work and prevent infections, or remove measures which are harmful, and whilst isolation isn't particularly harmful, there are health harms, and there are of course financial harms. The measures are not fit for purpose and should not be supported by anyone - either call for more restrictions, or call for less, don't call for ones which fail on both sides.

@UnmentionedElephantDildo

Are the vulnerable being thrown to the wolves as they are claiming?

Yes

There is no scientific consensus for abrupt and total lifting of restrictions when we are still in the winter virus season, and NHS leaders seem to be dead against it.

The timing and totality is being driven by the need to keep Boris in power and the sun setting on the emergency law.

A phased reduction wouid be far more sensible, but Boris is being held to ransom by the U4T types who wouid vote against

"Measures" throw newborn babies and their mothers to the wolves when they're denied contact with each other due to excessive policies "Measures" throw young children and their working parents to the wolves when they constantly have to test and regularly isolate. "Measures" throw school pupils and students to the wolves when they're taught remotely, masked, kept in bubbles, denied normal social mixing, lose practical experience and trips. "Measures" throw graduates and new employees to the wolves when remote working forces them to work in unsuitable homes, and prevents them from learning informally by working with colleagues and building up professional networks/ experience. "Measures" throw older people to the wolves when they're too scared to live sociable, active lives, when they have falls because masks bugger up their propriocetion, when they struggle to access healthcare, when they're denied access to family or visitors. So many vulnerable people thrown to the wolves by lack of access to support services, routines, lip-reading, navigating altered public spaces and ettiquettes, lack of mental health support and diagnosis. Then the financial wolves...

There's a lot of well-fed wolves out there, supported by Indie-Sage and their narrow focus where they only see one threat in society fed by doomsday mathematical modelling.

Well said 👏

Can't say I pay any attention to them to be honest. Every single lifting of restrictions has been met with "don't do it". Think the last one was "we'll have 20,000+ per day hospital admissions if we do this now". Look how that worked out.

Independent SAGE are only interested in reducing covid cases. Of course permanent lockdown is the best way to do this. However, they don't take into account social and economic or any other factors, so their opinion is basically pointless.

bogroll
There's a lot of well-fed wolves out there, supported by Indie-Sage and their narrow focus where they only see one threat in society fed by doomsday mathematical modelling.

This ^. Well said.

Those greedy wolves, not left anyone to throw under a bus!

"appearance fees from BBC and ITV"

They don't pay appearance fees to academics -- at least, they didn't pay me! Or the people I know who have been on a lot.

Actually, I tell a fib, I did get one appearance fee in last 2 years. Quite a surprise. Normally no one offers or expects, I just didn't say no when that was offered. Media appearances can take a lot of time. The fee was enough to have a decent meal on, nothing amazing. Ditto newspaper & magazine interviews & documentary contributions, we give those "for free".

No fees from Sky, Times Radio or local radio, either.

iSAGE... oh well. the less said the better. They meant well.

For CV/CEV 5-11year olds (like my son) who have just been given the first of two doses of the vaccine the decision to drop all restrictions seems shameful…

Has anyone ever taken this lot seriously?

Not for a while!

I think it's more interesting trying to work out what their "pivot" will be, in terms of trying to maintain relevance.

• Developing ever-more expansive definitions of "Long covid," where absolutely every health problem any one has gets linked back to the fact that they have had a positive test at some point?
• Moving on to other infectious diseases (Lyme disease, stirring up pandemic panic at every turn and trying to drum up fear and excitement that this is going to be the Next Big One? There's one crazy lady in a high tech medical respirator on Twitter who's starting anxiously scanning the news for new bird flu outbreaks and tweeting lots of panic porn about this)
• Pivoting to climate change? (Please, please no. Climate change is a serious topic that really does need action and the involvement of Indy Sage types will create a huge counter-reaction that will make it impossible to do the work that's needed)

Independent sage condemn lifting of restrictions

Quelle surprise!

Even if they're right, do they actually have any credibility left now?

@greenteafiend

Not for a while!

I think it's more interesting trying to work out what their "pivot" will be, in terms of trying to maintain relevance.

• Developing ever-more expansive definitions of "Long covid," where absolutely every health problem any one has gets linked back to the fact that they have had a positive test at some point?
• Moving on to other infectious diseases (Lyme disease, stirring up pandemic panic at every turn and trying to drum up fear and excitement that this is going to be the Next Big One? There's one crazy lady in a high tech medical respirator on Twitter who's starting anxiously scanning the news for new bird flu outbreaks and tweeting lots of panic porn about this)
• Pivoting to climate change? (Please, please no. Climate change is a serious topic that really does need action and the involvement of Indy Sage types will create a huge counter-reaction that will make it impossible to do the work that's needed)

Surely now is the time for them to rebrand as "Independent NATO".

At the end of the day, we have a lying prime minister. We know he lies and gambles with public health. We know he hasn’t followed the science and hasn’t been as cautious as he should.

That’s why we have hard lockdowns after his initial “shaking hands with everyone” bullshit in Feb 2020, then lo and behold a panic lockdown. Same again in Jan 2021.

This is what makes me angry. People are forgetting how many mistakes he’s made.

I don’t trust him to not make more.

The bit that pisses me off is taking away testing. If he removes isolation, then testing will fall anyway so keep it free.

How the fuck can they spend £2 bn on testing in one month?! That’s nonsense. They need to spend more wisely, not throw money to their fucking mates.

It’s not just independent sage who condemn this. Plenty of other medical bodies as well.

Why do people believe Boris is doing this? It’s to distract from party gate and so he can claim to be “first” (which he won’t be as Denmark beat them to it).

Why are people falling for this.

It’s to distract from party gate and so he can claim to be “first” (which he won’t be as Denmark beat them to it).

Then your post doesn't make sense. If he can't claim to be first because Denmark is, and that's pretty well known, how does that distract anyone? And anyway, you're not some sort of gifted individual who is the only person who can keep two thoughts in their head: partygate and lifted restrictions. All of us can do that.

Lifting restrictions will throw the vulnerable under the bus. Sage are right. The economy also is part of this. Never the Twain shall meet on this one.

All us mere mortals can do is try our best. I'll still wear a mask, social distance and won't be attending any packed events. If I get covid I will self isolate but I'm lucky that I'm in a position to do so.

I hope isage do not pivot to climate change. I will instantly disbelieve any of the climate scientists forecasting doom if that happens. They have lost creditability in any of their predictions as far as I am concerned. And I want to be able to believe what scientists tell us ( and I don’t really at the moment, I realise now models get exaggerated and are mostly wrong).
I personally hope they disband and bugger off before they create more damage and politicise another important area of science.

Getting rid of legal restrictions doesn't mean you cannot stay at home if you have covid. They are simply allowing us to use our judgement just like with other illnesses.
If I'm ill I will stay at home but I'm not going to push stick up my nose looking for a virus that hasn't made me sick. I've had covid (March 20, wasn't as all ill) and I'm triple vaxxed. It's time to treat it like other similar diseases

Couldn't agree more!

I'd quoted BOG's post there but somehow it disappeared!

Anyone who understands science says the same. Of course it's too soon but Johnson needs a distraction from his lies and deceit.

So more deceit is how he's chosen to go.

The WHO, Medics and virologists all say it's too soon. But Johnson is desperate for a distraction from his wrongdoing.

@gogohm

Getting rid of legal restrictions doesn't mean you cannot stay at home if you have covid. They are simply allowing us to use our judgement just like with other illnesses. If I'm ill I will stay at home but I'm not going to push stick up my nose looking for a virus that hasn't made me sick. I've had covid (March 20, wasn't as all ill) and I'm triple vaxxed. It's time to treat it like other similar diseases

How does that work if you don’t have that luxury?

@Nightlystroll

It’s to distract from party gate and so he can claim to be “first” (which he won’t be as Denmark beat them to it).

Then your post doesn't make sense. If he can't claim to be first because Denmark is, and that's pretty well known, how does that distract anyone? And anyway, you're not some sort of gifted individual who is the only person who can keep two thoughts in their head: partygate and lifted restrictions. All of us can do that.

I didn’t say he made sense. Boris doesn’t make sense.

People want to believe Boris on this because they like the idea of no more restrictions. So they’re not engaging their brains and therefore not critically assessing what he’s saying.

Anyone who understands science says the same. Of course it's too soon but Johnson needs a distraction from his lies and deceit.

And for the 17th time, what about the other countries doing the same thing (Denmark, Norway, Sweden, ROI)?

Are they doing it for Boris too?