No isolation when covid positive in March

[Whathefisgoingon]

I just cannot get my head around this.

As far as I know, no other country has announced this.

For two years they’ve told us that it’s dangerous and now they’re prepared to send me to work directly next to someone infected with covid?

I had always believed it should be more socially acceptable to simply stay home when sick, as too many feel forced in to work with flu etc, but this takes the biscuit.

I understand we need to find a way to get back to some kind of normal but this seems extreme.

Will this really happen in less than 2 months!?

@Footnote

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t have a transition. Not isolating at home but able to go out with a mask, work at a 2 m distance from others, no entering other homes or entertainment venues for 3–5 days.

This seems sensible. I have a CEV friend who will probably die if they catch Covid. S will their spouse. They've both been shielding for 18 months.

Masks, vaccine passes, good ventilation. That's what sensible countries are doing anyway.

ROI has just done away with it's vaccine pass btw. Because it was making fuck all difference to anything.

[quote Spudina]@AnEpisodeOfEastenders but my patients are CEV. They have blood cancers and the research shows they don’t have great responses to the vaccines because of their impaired immune systems. A lot of them are still not seeing anyone or doing anything as they are too frightened. They have lived this way for two years. And this plan is just throwing them under the bus frankly.[/quote]
Will your patients have access to the new wave of antivirals by March? Paxlovid is meant to be coming to the NHS early February but I'm not sure whether the numbers will be sufficient.

Pills for the CEV should be what makes a final relaxation possible - giving them the same protection that everyone else gets from vaccination.

We do what we do with cars. Sinple and basic mitigations. Just as seat belts, child seats, and speeding limits don't prevent all car deaths but reduce the risks, so do masks, vaccine passes, and good ventilation reduce the risks of SARS-COV-2

For the eight million bloody time, Tea, these nice little tweaky measures appear to be doing sod-all to control spread in countries that are doing them.

China is (just about, kind of) controlling the spread, and if you'll notice, they are doing this by locking down entire cities and putting people into centralized quarantine by force. Not by popping a magic air machine into each classroom and having everyone put a nice mask on.

@AnEpisodeOfEastenders

People should stop hiding behind the CEV barrier.

I hope you never have to go through the dreadful two years we’ve just had because we’re CEV. Not hiding behind anything - consultant recommending to carry on shielding as much as possible because immunosuppressive drugs mean I have little resistance to Covid. Also still getting emails from department of health reminding me I’m CEV and to continue to exercise caution. How is this ‘hiding’ behind some sort of CEV barrier exactly ?

For the eight million bloody time, Tea, these nice little tweaky measures appear to be doing sod-all to control spread in countries that are doing them.

Wrong. And the WHO agree with me.

[quote Daisy829]@Waxonwaxoff0 I’m in exactly the same situation as you. 3 of us have tested positive in the house so I’ve had to close my business (childcare) for nearly 2 weeks and we’ve all had minimal symptoms. I’ve had worse colds. I realise for some it’s very serious and I’m not wanting to take away from that but for the majority, we should be able to continue as normal.

I can’t afford to take more time off unpaid & im fairly sure the government can’t afford to continue with all the self isolation grants and funding the tests. Apparently we are one of the only countries to encourage testing without symptoms. It’s like we are looking for trouble. No wonder our cases are showing high compared to others.[/quote]
There are countries testing everyone twice a week, apart from those who are WFH and not meeting anyone.

@Spudina. I appreciate what you’re saying, but what sort of advice were your CEV patients given pre-pandemic? They would have been as susceptible to colds, flu, D&V as they are to Covid now. People weren’t isolating for those types of illnesses pre-pandemic. My CEV late Mum would catch a cold and end up in hospital with pneumonia, because her lungs were damaged. It happened several years in a row. The same would happen now, whether it was a normal cold or Covid. Unless she stayed at home forever-and even then she caught colds from my Dad.

@AnEpisodeOfEastenders

People should stop hiding behind the CEV barrier.

Have I misunderstood you? Or are you actually saying that those of us who are CEV are whining?

Amongst other things I'm diabetic, the highest number of deaths are now diabetics.

Why shouldn't I take every precaution I can & be furious that every single mitigation is being removed, to try to save BJ's arse?

SARS-COV-2 is NOT a cold, nor the flu.

It is a still new and evolving vascular and inflammatory disease that can kill - or disable (including sometimes causing organ damage).

That aside, good point that UK society should've been more civic minded before the pandemic, and out of courtesy towards the more vulnerable taken simple and easy infection control mitigations.

Masks and good ventilation.

Measures that have been common place in Japan and other East Asian countries ever since the flu pandemic 100 years ago.

@Cameleongirl I'm wondering the same. My dad was CV and every cold hit him like a brick wall because he had suck bad lung damage. He was still working full time, though, no special treatment during flu season apart from he had a jab. Then one time he got a regular cold virus and he didn't recover.

I had always believed it should be more socially acceptable to simply stay home when sick, as too many feel forced in to work with flu etc, but this takes the biscuit.

In all my life I've never worked with anyone who's been forced to go to work with actual flu.

People who keep writing "Masks, vaccine passes, good ventilation" on every covid post on MN need to be smacked with a (HEPA) filter.

People who don’t want self isolation to end yet….what would you envisage happening over the next year or so. When would you choose for self isolation to be kept until?

Not sure what I think to be honest.

@Flapjacker48

People who keep writing "Masks, vaccine passes, good ventilation" on every covid post on MN need to be smacked with a (HEPA) filter.

😂

@ OnceuponaRainbow18
Don’t be ridiculous, schools all have an isolation list with a positive date and return date. They should not be allowed to return 2 days after testing positive. The negative dates are on days 5 and 6. However, if he had a negative PCR he would be fine to return.

If there was no PCR, his being allowed back in the classroom says more about the management of COVID in your school. If you were worried maybe instead of being shocked he was in your classroom you should have spoken up and sent him home!

Schools still have to isolate when a positive case off people don’t realise that. Currently sees require children to isolate for family contact even if testing negative ..so much stricter rules for children than adults. To be honest I expect some covid related isolation to stay in schools similar to the 48 hour rule for stomach bugs which exists in schools but not in the general population a lot of school will require a minimum period of time off school with a temperature going forward for example but yes it will go for adults eventually.

Masks and good ventilation.

Measures that have been common place in Japan and other East Asian countries ever since the flu pandemic 100 years ago.

Have you seen the case figure trends from Japan and SK in the past couple of weeks?
Admittedly, they've "flattened the curve." The bad news is that they seem to have flattened it against the "y" axis rather than the "x" axis....

Not many serious cases, but if the argument here is about CEV people, it's the number of cases that is relevant, since the whole "point" of CEV is that you are much more likely to get a severe case even for diseases that cause mild illnesses for everyone else.

@Tealightsandd Yes, but my point is that if you’re CEV, even minor illnesses can kill you/land you in hospital in critical condition. I experienced enough emergencies with my Mum to know this. Continuing with an endless cycle of isolation for Covid cases won’t fully protect CEV people, because nothing can, unfortunately.

New rules allowing paid isolation for highly infectious diseases could help, perhaps? But they could still catch a cold from a family member.

I’m not downplaying Covid, it’s the reality when someone is CEV.☹️

Stuff that it is reasonable to expect society to do, to protect those who are CEV:
--Get all vaccines that HCPs strongly recommend, for themselves and their child.
--Get vaccines that are merely "recommended," like the flu shot annually, and vaccinating children against chickenpox
--Practice proper hygiene, including washing hands well at appropriate times, putting down lids on toilets before flushing, and so on.
--Stay home if you are sick with something.
--If you are sick at home and you NEED to go out for something essential, then put a mask on before going out rather than breathing aerosolized snot all over the wider world.
--Do things to improve ventilation in both existing and new buildings

Stuff that it is NOT reasonable to expect society to do, to protect those who are CEV:
--Wearing masks everywhere forever
--Not being able to travel overseas
--Being forced to WFH if you don't want to
--Significantly disrupting children's education
--Crushing small businesses
--Chasing women out of the workplace
--Massively increasing social inequalities
--Putting people into centralized quarantine by force
--Making children freeze to death while they are trying to learn and study
--Making people feel guilty for wanting to have a social life and have actual physical contact with fellow humans.

I think ventilation is a wonderful thing and I personally don't mind wearing a surgical mask in indoor public spaces, but these things are making very little difference to COVID transmission.

The trajectories of China, HK and NZ suggests that the only long term way to make a significant difference to the transmission rates of these newer and more infectious varieties of COVID, is to either become a hermit kingdom, or systemically and grossly infringe civil liberties on a mass scale. There is no appetite for this in most of the world, so it is pointless to even talk about.

By the way, the two people I know personally who have said stuff about "Oh, we can't stop COVID measures, because there are CEV people!" are the same people I know who have never bothered to get the flu shot, and in one case did not bother to vax her kid against chickenpox either.

CEV creates moral dilemmas for society, but it does seem like for many people, the pandemic is the first time they've ever heard of CEV people, or indeed realized that infectious diseases actually exist.

@Tealightsandd

SARS-COV-2 is NOT a cold, nor the flu.

It is a still new and evolving vascular and inflammatory disease that can kill - or disable (including sometimes causing organ damage).

That aside, good point that UK society should've been more civic minded before the pandemic, and out of courtesy towards the more vulnerable taken simple and easy infection control mitigations.

Masks and good ventilation.

Measures that have been common place in Japan and other East Asian countries ever since the flu pandemic 100 years ago.

All of this.

There's evolving evidence that COVID can disable and have a long-term effect, even if it's just feels "like a cold". It's too soon to know whether people will completely recover.

There's the issue of CEV folk, those for whom vaccines don't work, and those who are allergic to vaccines. But bollocks to them eh? Couldn't possibly carry on wearing a mask in a public place to try and stop them dying. Why should you be inconvenienced because someone else has the audacity to be in poorer health?!

And let's not worry about long COVID and the fact that medical science is suggesting this is not just a passing cold, but an inflammatory virus which has the potential to cause long term damage.

Of course people want to get back to their lives. But there are middle steps between "fuck everyone who's vulnerable because I feel fine" and "you must all lock yourselves away and never see another soul again". Masks, ventilation and isolating if you have the virus are just sensible, and not unreasonable.

It's a high-risk policy to give people the right to freely mingle while COVID-positive. Because we know from public behaviour over the past two years that people won't be careful or exercise any degree of consideration for others unless they're compelled to. As long as they're OK, sod everyone else.

I don't understand how we've jumped from 'this is a deadly virus, please follow all these measures to prevent it spreading" to "aaah fuck it, I'm sure it will be alright". Well, I do understand - that's Boris Johnson's whole attitude to the public. Let's remember this was the man who said "let the bodies pile high".

I’m one of the fortunate ones that would be paid if I took time off ill, so scrapping the isolation rules doesn’t really effect me directly. I understand the frustration of having to isolate without symptoms as currently I am in the same situation.
I do however worry about the CEV people and the very elderly. I lost a very dear colleague (63 years old) who had high BP and diabetes despite being fully vaccinated. I also know that covid is with us for a very long time, possibly forever and one day it could be someone we know who may not fall into that category right now, but as we all age, may fall into that category one day.
My other concern is that we all know how competent Boris Johnson is. Scrapping the rules so quickly will only increase the chances of new variants emerging and no one can guarantee that the new variant will be as mild as our most recent variant. All that will do is bring back the isolation and testing laws to help bring cases down to protect the nhs. I hope rules are dropped slowly to avoid this and the CEV and elderly are considered.

@Whathefisgoingon

I just cannot get my head around this.

As far as I know, no other country has announced this.

For two years they’ve told us that it’s dangerous and now they’re prepared to send me to work directly next to someone infected with covid?

I had always believed it should be more socially acceptable to simply stay home when sick, as too many feel forced in to work with flu etc, but this takes the biscuit.

I understand we need to find a way to get back to some kind of normal but this seems extreme.

Will this really happen in less than 2 months!?

Where I live we have never had to isolate if we test positive. Some people do just the same as some people take time off work with a cold. But for the most part people have just got on with life. Our cases per million are still lower than the UK.

Agree OP. It's more to do with when covid laws came in though. It does seem insane and throws lots of people under the bus. Given how well we look after vulnerable people now, it's not reassuring to know we will be subjecting lots more people to organ damage.