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Original poster

Can someone explain to me New Zealand?

791 replies

idontknow54789 · 27/01/2022 20:45

Sorry for the ignorance/naivety here but can someone explain to me the reasonings behind such extreme lockdown measures in NZ? At the beginning of the pandemic they're approach was fully accepted but surely now with vaccines and omnicrom being a 'milder' form of covid they have to start setting sense? Is it about the health system? I understand there's a severe lack of ICU beds but is locking down so much really better for health? Can anyone explain it to me please?

OP posts:
Sundayvibes · 30/01/2022 22:57

Of covid or with covid?

MapleMay11 · 30/01/2022 22:58

Sorry if I wasn't clear - I was thinking about 4th doses which as PinkTonic said haven't been needed here in the UK as yet but I think will be important for NZ to open up later this year.

Tealightsandd · 30/01/2022 23:04

@Sundayvibes

The ONS have realised stats for covid deaths in the uk. 17,500 died ‘ of ‘ covid The others died ‘ with ‘ covid. Within 28 days of a positive test
Yes many die after 28 days (lots are in ICU for weeks) - with a fair few dying of Covid related damage months later. As they no longer test positive, it's not recorded as a Covid death and instead will be down as heart attack, stroke, clots, etc. I'll dig out the info on this tomorrow as I need to get to bed now.
Tealightsandd · 30/01/2022 23:07

There's also some medical experts who have given very good explanations re how 'of' and 'with' Covid is the same thing in the majority of cases. Huge numbers of people - many working full-time - have well managed underlying conditions. It is the SARS-COV-2 infection that kills them.

MapleMay11 · 30/01/2022 23:29

@Tealightsandd I haven't seen any data from an analysis of individual patient data (i.e. from primary care records) matched with mortality data in the UK so I'm not sure we know how many people had undiagnosed vs diagnosed underlying conditions and of those that did in the latter group, how well they were managed. I would be interested to see this.

spottygymbag · 31/01/2022 05:48

@Radyward "Is the NZ public frightened out of their wits by the spectre of omicron???"

Of Omicron? Not so much. More the flow on effects. Family and friends in med are very concerned staffing levels relating to sickness and isolation, the flow on effects to providing essential non Covid care in cardiac, oncology, emergency med etc
Friends due to give birth in the next 6 weeks are concerned about midwife staffing levels, specialists, care for siblings, staying Covid free ahead of the birth and whether their partners can be with them.
Friends in hospitality are concerned about keeping their restaurants and bars running in the face of absence and how to cover wages and staffing in light of 24 days isolation, particularly after a rough couple of years.
Some are waiting on edge to see if their house purchase will finally go through without the developers pulling the sunset clause sighting Covid-delays which would leave them priced out of the market and back at square one.
But I have yet to hear from my friends, family and colleagues of anyone who is actually fearful of omicron, with the exception of two who are CEV and hoping their triple jabs provide enough cover.

spottygymbag · 31/01/2022 05:49

*citing

Sundayvibes · 31/01/2022 07:31

Average age of a covid death in the UK is 82.6

Quartz2208 · 31/01/2022 08:18

They sound very logical and rational concerns spottygymbag and I guess sum up exactly why New Zealand are trying to take a controlled approach to this to see if they can manage the spread

MapleMay11 · 31/01/2022 08:31

But I have yet to hear from my friends, family and colleagues of anyone who is actually fearful of omicron, with the exception of two who are CEV and hoping their triple jabs provide enough cover.

CEV people in New Zealand have only received 3 vaccinations? I imagine that would be very worrying for them when they see what other countries have done.

rrhuth · 31/01/2022 12:47

@Sundayvibes

Average age of a covid death in the UK is 82.6
This is an unhelpful type of stat (if correct) as younger people in ICU take a very long time to fully recover, it isn't a binary thing of a) dead b) fine.
Turangawaewae · 31/01/2022 20:24

A few people up thread mentioned how difficult it is for kiwis with families on different passports to enter NZ ATM the moment.

I assume you are familiar with the UKs policy on this? It's extremely difficult and expensive for UK nationals to take a partner or family to the UK and has been for over a decade. The UK national has to have a high paying job, and to stay in the job. Maternity leave, redundancy etc mean the spouse has their visa removed.

I have two families members who have been unable to return for to this policy. It's common for parents to be separated from children for years while the paperwork is underway.

Gennz18 · 01/02/2022 05:47

The difference @Turangawaewae is that ordinarily these people would have the right to come to NZ but the Govt has suspended that right and slowed immigration processing. It is a direct result of the Covid travel ban.

Turangawaewae · 01/02/2022 06:23

So it's fine for the UK to treat citizens and their families badly ALL the time. But NZ is wrong for having a temporary ban in order to save lives????

Quartz2208 · 01/02/2022 07:33

Are you talking about a right to reside though and immigration rather than visiting because arent they different things?

Because surely the policy up for discussion is things like Charlotte Bellis which is not something that would happen here

Gennz18 · 01/02/2022 07:47

I don’t have a view on the UK’s immigration policy … this thread is about NZ’s covid strategy 🤪

greenteafiend · 01/02/2022 08:27

I disagree with the UK's policy, but at least it only affects people wanting to come back to their country to LIVE. I am British and it has never stopped me and my family being able to visit home, though I might have to jump through some hoops if we wanted to return to live in the UK.

The NZ restrictions are making it hard to come back to VISIT your family on holiday. It's hardly the same thing.

MapleMay11 · 01/02/2022 08:37

The UK national has to have a high paying job, and to stay in the job

Isn't the amount only 30k? That's hardly a 'high paying job' in the UK for a skilled migrant.

Radyward · 01/02/2022 08:58

Omicron is mild
Our hosps were not over run with it at all unlike delta
All the above just shows the unfairness of jacinda continuing policy at home and on borders .Questions would need to be asked why no increase in hosp beds at all in 2yrs ? Her hardline approach is doing NZ no favours internationally.

MarchCrocus · 01/02/2022 09:32

@MapleMay11

The UK national has to have a high paying job, and to stay in the job

Isn't the amount only 30k? That's hardly a 'high paying job' in the UK for a skilled migrant.

No, 18.6k.

www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income

I'm an immigration lawyer, so I know better than most about the impact of the minimum income threshold. It hasn't been raised in nearly 10 years and at the time, 18.6k was quite a bit more than NMW, which was done deliberately. These days it isn't so much the amount as the need to be earning it for a set period that can be a struggle for people.

It's still nothing remotely comparable to New Zealand policy relating to their own nationals. Also worth pointing out that New Zealand continues to have immigration requirements for non-nationals in addition to policies limiting access for their own citizens. It's a ridiculous comparison and argument, even if you actually think the NZ approach is justified.

spottygymbag · 01/02/2022 09:37

@MapleMay11

But I have yet to hear from my friends, family and colleagues of anyone who is actually fearful of omicron, with the exception of two who are CEV and hoping their triple jabs provide enough cover.

CEV people in New Zealand have only received 3 vaccinations? I imagine that would be very worrying for them when they see what other countries have done.

I can't comment on what others CEV kiwis may have had regarding the number of shots, but these two are recently triple vaxed. First shots in July, second in September, third in January. I'm sure there are others who have been handled differently dependent on their conditions.
MapleMay11 · 01/02/2022 11:55

@MarchCrocus thank you for this - very interesting.

@spottygymbag thank you. With a January vaccination, at least they will have some degree of protection if NZ does open up in the next few months and presumably further shots will be available for them by them.

user1477391263 · 01/02/2022 12:09

Isn't the amount only 30k? That's hardly a 'high paying job' in the UK for a skilled migrant.

It's the Brit that needs to be earning that amount, not the foreign migrant. The foreign migrant that is their spouse could earn any amount, but it is the Brit who is told that they need to have been earning a certain amount for a consistent number of years. And that causes issues, because many many women have taken time out of the workplace or worked part time for a number of years. I would qualify, many of my friends would not. It's stupid. My husband earns many, many times what I do and speaks fluent English; we're hardly going to be welfare cases.

That said, that's a bit different to not being able to even VISIT your own country, which is the NZ situ, more or less.

MarchCrocus · 01/02/2022 13:33

It's for 6 months usually, which I agree is often problematic but you're right that it's nowhere near the situation in NZ at the moment. Once the spouse is in the UK legally, they'll have permission to work and the income can be earned between the two or solely by either partner.

spottygymbag · 01/02/2022 19:07

@MapleMay11 the push for boosters is one of the reasons they are pushing for delayed opening and trying to slow the spread as long as possible.
I think up north they have only recently got over the 90% double rate (happy to be corrected). As a country it really is so different from England that the different approach has been a necessity for lots of the reason already mentioned by pp's.

The MIQ made sense initially but as time has gone on I think it should have been re-jigged with more of a queue to be worked through rather than the lottery.
We made it home once in May last year. We grabbed flights and rental car and sorted remote working with our bosses. Didn't believe it was all actually ok until we landed and walked out of the airport. Everything was so uncertain that we didn't even tell the dc until we woke them at 4am the morning we flew out. Three blissful weeks of feijoas, family and reconnecting with our loved ones and the travel bubble popped a few days after we got back.
Still trying to get my vulnerable DF back to NZ from Thailand after his situation changed drastically very quickly.