Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Can someone explain to me New Zealand?

791 replies

idontknow54789 · 27/01/2022 20:45

Sorry for the ignorance/naivety here but can someone explain to me the reasonings behind such extreme lockdown measures in NZ? At the beginning of the pandemic they're approach was fully accepted but surely now with vaccines and omnicrom being a 'milder' form of covid they have to start setting sense? Is it about the health system? I understand there's a severe lack of ICU beds but is locking down so much really better for health? Can anyone explain it to me please?

OP posts:
samsalmon · 29/01/2022 22:14

But I would also say that from my own experience, post-viral fatigue is very very common with Covid and can take weeks or longer to settle. It seems to the most common obvious lingering symptom. Technically, it would count as Long Covid but I’m not sure thats helpful unless it doesn’t resolve, which it has done in everyone I know who’s experienced it.

shewillhaveherway · 29/01/2022 22:20

@quixote9 Auckland was in the original level 4 lockdown last year again. Stop minimising this. My children - Auckland children - missed out on nearly half of their school year. We did homeschooling for months and months and months.
We were effectively locked in our house for long periods - we couldn’t even go to the playground in the weekend to offer some respite to our children. It was an absolute nightmare. 1/3 of the country lives in Auckland. The long term consequences of this will be felt for years. Stop pretending it didn’t happen.

I read in the paper yesterday that so many NZ children missed vaccinations last year against deadly childhood diseases like whooping cough and measles that fewer than half of Maori babies and 18months olds in some regions are now vaccinated - and that children are about 100 times more likely to die from measles than from Covid.

greenteafiend · 29/01/2022 22:51

Nz will get thru this and eventually open up BUT their tourism industry is SHOT for years to come if Jacinda remains as leader. Who in their right mind would book a holiday to NZ for some new variant to emerge while you are there and get stuck with borders closed.!!

Not really---if I'm British and I go on holiday to NZ and a new variant arises while I'm in NZ, there is no particular reason why NZ wouldnt let me fly out of the country and go home. It's the other way round that's the issue! Kiwis may be very chary of flying out of NZ and going on holiday to Bali for several years, if there is a sort of anxious feeling that NZ is now a country that watches the world's virus situation intently and is prone to clanging the borders shut and locking out their citizens if they have got the wind up about something.

As I understand, the NZ tourist industry has actually done not-too-badly--everyone in NZ has just gone on holiday within their own country, making up much of the revenues lost from foreign tourists. This is not a practical solution for lower income and middle income countries like Jamaica and Thailand, where there are not enough locals wealthy enough for hotel-holidays. But NZ is lucky enough to be both geographically isolated AND have a population rich enough to self-fund its own tourism for a couple of years. So the closed borders have worked out OK in that respect.

The bigger question going forward, for NZ, will be the long-term impact on immigration.

I do think that it is likely that immigration will decline quite a bit, long-term. People will be really leery of migrating to a country that makes it so hard to visit relatives overseas. And countries which forcibly stop immigration for a bit will probably find that they need and prefer less immigration permanently, because industries will learn to adapt. For example, universities might start developing courses aimed at reskilling local workers, rather than relying on income brought by overseas students; agriculture and industry will invest more heavily in automation to reduce the need for human workers.

It's one way of doing things, and every country has the right to decide whether it wants to be an immigration-based economy or not of course. But, assuming this happens, I do think it's kind of funny that the political left in NZ will have effectively succeeded in doing what conservatives could not manage to do! There will be some interesting political pivoting going on.

greenteafiend · 29/01/2022 22:55

Plenty of East Asian countries have worn masks for decades with only positive impact on the economy.

Not everyone, every day, all the time! They were a thing some people wore sometimes.

Remember, I actually live here.

Jourdain11 · 30/01/2022 00:16

@Tealightsandd how can people be severely killed?

greenteafiend · 30/01/2022 00:27

I'm really confused about why childhood vaccinations have fallen in NZ. If life has been fairly normal there for much of the time in most regions, there doesn't seem any particular reason why people would be less likely to get their kids jabbed.

Gennz18 · 30/01/2022 00:44

Exactly @shewillhaveherway

People outside of Auckland seems to forget that last year was a fucking disaster - 6 months do WFH and homeschool

And our level 4 lockdown is the strictest in The world (outside of being actually nailed into your home by the CCP). Level 3 - WFH, no school, but with takeaways available - is what the rest of the world recognises as lockdown.

If you count lockdown as L3 & L4 1.5million New Zealanders we’re in lockdown for pretty much half of 2021.

Bring on Omnicron, we cannot have a repeat of last year.

SquirrelG · 30/01/2022 04:04

I love that number of people (Tealightsandd & SquirrelG) that are really invested in this thread and then suddenly strop off saying they are wasting their time as if their time is oh so important

It's not that my time is "oh so important" - more that it is summer, the weather is lovely, and I can't be bothered spending time on MN when I could be doing something so much more interesting. I'm also sick of people who haven't the faintest idea what they are talking about giving us their opinions. The original OP was asking for the NZ response to be explained - I'm at a loss as to how a bunch of people on the other side of the world think they know all about it!

SquirrelG · 30/01/2022 04:09

@Thhhhheeeeelong - thank you very much, but I am chilled out. You seem to be the one stressing about things which can't be changed., not me. I just go with the flow - maybe try it sometime.

VikingOnTheFridge · 30/01/2022 07:27

@greenteafiend

Plenty of East Asian countries have worn masks for decades with only positive impact on the economy.

Not everyone, every day, all the time! They were a thing some people wore sometimes.

Remember, I actually live here.

Look, don't you realise that people in East Asia are a useful rhetorical device to attack English people with, and their behaviour needs to be whatever is convenient?
Finallygotme · 30/01/2022 08:02

The thing I have found most surprising is how different the accounts are for the people in Auckland and for those in the rest of NZ, the difference is stark.

PinkTonic · 30/01/2022 09:14

@SquirrelG

I love that number of people (Tealightsandd & SquirrelG) that are really invested in this thread and then suddenly strop off saying they are wasting their time as if their time is oh so important

It's not that my time is "oh so important" - more that it is summer, the weather is lovely, and I can't be bothered spending time on MN when I could be doing something so much more interesting. I'm also sick of people who haven't the faintest idea what they are talking about giving us their opinions. The original OP was asking for the NZ response to be explained - I'm at a loss as to how a bunch of people on the other side of the world think they know all about it!

I'm at a loss as to how a bunch of people on the other side of the world think they know all about it

A nice example of KIWI exceptionalism right there.

Unsurprisingly many of us actually have opinions on a range of topics, including the imposition of draconian restrictions by a liberal democracy in the free world, especially when those restrictions have affected us and our families deeply and tragically.

Radyward · 30/01/2022 09:54

So im clear on
No longer going tor zero covid
Life is grand there except for
Masks everywhere
Social distanciing
Caps on crowds
You have to win a lottery yo get in
24 day isoation for household close contacts. .
With jacinda' there is no sensibe response to omicron- the response is harsh restrictions which make little sense when 90% plus fully vaxxed..they to me feel unfair and a bit cruel =powercraxy and loving the limelight too much
Im in Ireland we had the longesy LD in all of europe and all rratructions gone except for mask wearing which is likely to go in feb.the reason no money left for furlough thars what i think plus an increasingky frustrated and annoyed electorate. Our politicians had everyone scared but like a fickk of a switch all removed. Im fairness everyone ( ok not quite!)basically got covid over Christma so vacone passes were complete nonsense and were at the start.
Did i read hacinda had a law regarding correct use of masks.-
Its this micro management thats ott

She must hate criticism as cant bear letting it rip .
Nz is a great country but No 1 will emigrate there while she is so totalitarian, authoritarian and sooo WOKE.

Radyward · 30/01/2022 10:04

The whole wedding cancellation is so virtue signalling . Like she had no date set for it !! I am horrified kids in auckland were home schooled for how long
Schools closed completely here in march 2020 for 8 weeks and that was it with masks introduced due to pressure on govt for kids age 9 and over in December 2021 ( totally ridiculous ) awful on parents and kids home schooled. Robin swan.n in NI cancelled all sportimg activities for kids as didnt want aduults congregatiing outside - the measure wasnt even to protect kids fgs so draconian measures arent solely a NZ thing but here and in england things are moving fast to normality TG not so NZ = Terrible

Cousinit · 30/01/2022 10:09

The response here in NZ hasn't been perfect but to be fair it has always been guided by scientific advice. This includes the current restrictions which really are not that harsh and are there to try and spread cases out to ensure the health service can cope. I know it's currently popular to paint Jacinda as some power hungry megalomaniac but she isn't making these rules up herself. And no, there isn't a law about how to wear masks here. Not sure where that's come from but it's utter bullocks.

Cousinit · 30/01/2022 10:10

Bollocks. Damn you autocorrect.

DoubleDeckerSwimmer · 30/01/2022 10:35

@Rangoon

Well I can go into work, go to the supermarket, take public transport if I want, go the hairdresser, go shopping, go to a bar or out for dinner. I like many/most New Zealanders am fully vaccinated and have a vaccine pass - if I didn't have one I'd be much more restricted. Also New Zealanders living abroad had a very long lead in period- months - where the government told them to come back and they could have re-entered without restriction. There was plenty of warning. I could leave the country if I wanted to but getting back would be the problem. We are not trapped in our houses. We can travel round the country. Yes we do have to wear facemasks a lot and households do have to isolate. No the government is not trying to eliminate covid any more as it is accepted that omicron is too contagious to stop. Our death toll is tiny and I don't actually know anybody who has had covid. I am not sure why British people are so interested in comnenting on our covid rules when you have thousands dead and we have around 50. Even allowing for scale we have far fewer dead. No, we don't all live on some isolated hilltop with sheep - we have regular suburbs and cities. If I wanted a face to face GP appointment I could probably get one today or tomorrow.
Also New Zealanders living abroad had a very long lead in period- months - where the government told them to come back and they could have re-entered without restriction. There was plenty of warning..

Absolutely untrue.

The government said come now if you can on 17th March 2020.

Winston Peters then said to "shelter in place" if you had not made it home by 24th March 2020.

As two essential workers assisting in the pandemic response in the UK, we were not able to be back in New Zealand within a week.

We did not realise that would mean we still could not get back in two years later. We did not realise that even the emergency process to get back in would not work in a way that meant we could see a dying parent before they died. No-one did.

Many British people I know are very interested in New Zealand's rule because they can see how hard it has been for the 1 million New Zealanders stuck outside. They are our friends, colleagues and support crew. Birthdays, funerals, weddings, anniversaries, illness and family times have been missed. Our mental health has been put to the most significant of tests and Jacinda's "Be Kind" message only ever seems to extend to the 5 million within the country.

I totally understood the border closures at the time. I would gladly do quarantine or whatever testing it took to keep the country safe. I am pleased that my family, many elderly, are safe and have had relatively unrestricted lives.

I think it is fair to question a system which keeps out citizens from their own country while letting in sport stars, DJs and the Wiggles.

Radyward · 30/01/2022 10:38

I stand corrected on mask thing ! I dont know where the end pt is for NZ but hopefully she will surprise ye with restrictions lifting soon. Following the science seems to have been the wromg course all the time in the UK and partly in Ireland. Like every time deaths etc and pressures on hosp totally over estimated. Seems Boris was forced to ignore the science at Christmas and keep things open.the doon mongers here ie scientists would have us locked up against a cold if they had the chance. Tg they are on the way ti being sidelined ie no one listens now. Dropped my 2 nephews home last night after a visit. Age 17 and 13 .they got covid at christmas. They both said it was a tickly throat for 1 day and that was it so thats largely what jacinda is keeping out albeit i know the elderly MIGHT have it worse . Both nephews vaccinated obvs.

DoubleDeckerSwimmer · 30/01/2022 10:46

@Turangawaewae

Mumsnet by it very nature has lots of NZ members who are expats/immigrants from the UK. The reality is that many of us in NZ have close family overseas and we don't see them every year simply due to cost. Before the pandemic, flights for 4 to the UK mean a trip costs around 5,000 GBP. Add in accomodation and internal travel and its generally more like 10k. Even as highly skilled migrants that was way more than our budget could manage every year.

The average household income is about 55k per year. For many NZers household incomes are much lower and overseas travel is just not feasible.

I have elderly family in the UK, one of whom has been quite ill. But I accept that the cost of my 'freedom' to travel would be borne by the poorest in our society. Both economically through the loss of minimum wage jobs and also through a disproportionate number of deaths in some socio economic groups.

For example, some Pasifika families live in multi generation large household of 10+ where covid is much harder to control. Evidence from the US also suggests Pasifika and Maori people have higher death rates. NZ is not the UK - our ethnic and cultural mix is different and mumsnet is giving a very NZ European biased viewpoint.

I also know many people who have been through MIQ, some multiple times. I don't believe there are thousands of NZ citizens out there who have been waiting 2 years to come home. It is difficult to come for short trip to visit family. I feel for people separated from their loved ones and wish MIQ was better.

I don't believe there are thousands of NZ citizens out there who have been waiting 2 years to come home.

There absolutely are. Just the Grounded Kiwis group on Facebook has more than 15,000 members. (and, in our family, for example, four of us are due a visit but only one is a member).

We were planning to come in Easter 2020. The visit was quite overdue but we decided to time it around my mum's 75th.

Wizzbangfizz · 30/01/2022 12:01

"Mass disabling event" what a load of crap.

Queuing4Fergs · 30/01/2022 19:40

This is how the next level madness plays out. Family members sharing toothbrushes with infected family members in order to get infected so their self isolation time decreases. Brilliant work, Jacinda

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-outbreak-familys-ten-day-stay-in-miq-stay-stretches-to-40-days-after-members-test-positive/JFY6ENP7UUHBK4C4BV4MAEUJB4/

Tealightsandd · 30/01/2022 20:04

Haven't had a chance to catch up on this thread but here's some info on Long Covid.

Just as SARS-CoV-2 is not 'just a cold', nor is Long Covid disability 'just a bit of tiredness'.

I wrote about the need for specialist scans a while back on other threads. Standard ones were coming back as normal.

www.nihr.ac.uk/news/lung-abnormalities-found-in-long-covid-patients-with-breathlessness/29798

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/29/long-covid-study-finds-abnormality-in-lungs-that-could-explain-breathlessness?

Findings raise possibility Covid may cause microscopic damage not detected by normal tests

Tealightsandd · 30/01/2022 20:05

@Wizzbangfizz

"Mass disabling event" what a load of crap.
Crap it certainly is, for the many newly disabled Long Covid victims.
Gennz18 · 30/01/2022 20:58

There are absolutely thousands of NZ citizens who can’t get home. My SIL is a UK based Kiwi and her 2 children are also citizens - luckily we saw them in early 2020 but who knows when they will be able to get back. And that’s just for a holiday, they are not rendered stateless, but they still have a right to access their country of citizenship and reconnect with (increasingly elderly) family.

That doesn’t even take into account the families of residents who can’t get in at all - the migrant labour that we rely on, from the Phillipines and India for example - they can’t leave or they will lose their residency, and they can’t bring their families in as they have no right to enter the country. All those stories about Filipina women who haven’t seen their small children in 2 years, South African farm labourers locked out of the country even though they’d lived here for years, their kids are enrolled in local schools and NZ is the only home they’ve ever known and their skills/labour are desperately needed … there are millions of these stories.

The Charlotte Bellis story is notable for the fact she is a well known journalist and for the Taliban angle but it’s not even the tip of the iceberg.

Gennz18 · 30/01/2022 20:59

I should say there are thousands of these stories … millions maybe not

“Team of 5 million” and all that 🙄