Can someone explain to me New Zealand?

[idontknow54789]

Sorry for the ignorance/naivety here but can someone explain to me the reasonings behind such extreme lockdown measures in NZ? At the beginning of the pandemic they're approach was fully accepted but surely now with vaccines and omnicrom being a 'milder' form of covid they have to start setting sense? Is it about the health system? I understand there's a severe lack of ICU beds but is locking down so much really better for health? Can anyone explain it to me please?

@SecondSwitchNZ I am so sorry about what your son and your family are going through. Teenage boys need their friends and I am enraged on your behalf.

@shiningcuckoodo you live in Auckland? Because how you could say there have been relatively few restrictions is gobsmacking.

My primary aged kids have missed months and months of schooling. They haven’t had an uninterrupted year for 2 years. They weren’t able to see friends, to play sports, to attend school, to partake in extra curricular activities for most of the last half of last year. (And some of the first half.)

After months of a half hour zoom lesson once a day being their only formal teaching time they got to go back 2 days a week for the last two weeks of term.

We got to have a summer holidays without a lockdown but full of restrictions. We now face starting our third year of interrupted schooling. We are clearly at the beginning of a massive omicron outbreak - which despite knowing it was heading here the NZ govt is woefully underprepared for. We don’t have rapid antigen tests because they failed to order them on time.
They have Not increased the number of ICU beds (which is one of the lowest in the OECD) in two years.
The state of Victoria (pop 6.7 million) has installed 50’000 air purifiers for the start of term 1. NZ (pop. 5.1) ‘hopes to have’ 5000 by winter.
The music festival superspreader event was full of senior students. Many attended school orientation days this week. Within a couple of weeks it will be throughout our schools.
What’s the current isolation period? 24 days? How long before schools have no teachers available?

And I completely disagree with you on Ardern. If they wanted to keep omicron out they should have shut the boarders. They didn’t. They let their favoured industries in - sports teams, DJ’s and nanny’s to Hollywood actors while the Clinical Director of Southland Hospital’s Obstetrics and Gynaecology was turned down for an MIQ spot three times and now Southland is having to look at downgrading it’s hospital maternity unity.

Now it’s here. Their communication has collapsed into shambles. Our supply chains are under stress and a ‘critical worker register’ could take another two weeks.

They have been absolutely negligent and incompetent- but heaven forbid we question them! And her partner has behaved like an utter dick.

I couldn't quote the person who said they didn't understand how the NZ economy isn't collapsing without tourism. I looked into this...one website said tourism contributed 5.8% of NZ's GDP. Another said 18.3%. Maybe those figures are from different years.

I'm not sure which it is, but tourism isn't the biggest contributor to the economy, and there's still domestic tourism. Lots of kiwis I know have been on holiday during the pandemic.

Exactly @TheKeatingFive. It was proportionate to be very cautious in the early months of the pandemic, before anyone was vaccinated, when people had no defence against a new and, for some, very dangerous virus, but that kind of fear and suppression is no longer appropriate.

The UK hasn't always made the right decisions and I think anyone living here would agree with that, but our high levels of vaccination coupled with high levels of previous infection means we are in good shape now, with open borders, travel restrictions lifted and our economy fully open. It's been a bumpy ride to get here, for sure, but I'd hate to be stuck in a small island nation with closed borders and can only imagine the misery and frustration of those who are impacted by that policy.

It's borders, not boarders.

[quote shewillhaveherway]@shiningcuckoodo you live in Auckland? Because how you could say there have been relatively few restrictions is gobsmacking.

My primary aged kids have missed months and months of schooling. They haven’t had an uninterrupted year for 2 years. They weren’t able to see friends, to play sports, to attend school, to partake in extra curricular activities for most of the last half of last year. (And some of the first half.)

After months of a half hour zoom lesson once a day being their only formal teaching time they got to go back 2 days a week for the last two weeks of term.

We got to have a summer holidays without a lockdown but full of restrictions. We now face starting our third year of interrupted schooling. We are clearly at the beginning of a massive omicron outbreak - which despite knowing it was heading here the NZ govt is woefully underprepared for. We don’t have rapid antigen tests because they failed to order them on time.
They have Not increased the number of ICU beds (which is one of the lowest in the OECD) in two years.
The state of Victoria (pop 6.7 million) has installed 50’000 air purifiers for the start of term 1. NZ (pop. 5.1) ‘hopes to have’ 5000 by winter.
The music festival superspreader event was full of senior students. Many attended school orientation days this week. Within a couple of weeks it will be throughout our schools.
What’s the current isolation period? 24 days? How long before schools have no teachers available?

And I completely disagree with you on Ardern. If they wanted to keep omicron out they should have shut the boarders. They didn’t. They let their favoured industries in - sports teams, DJ’s and nanny’s to Hollywood actors while the Clinical Director of Southland Hospital’s Obstetrics and Gynaecology was turned down for an MIQ spot three times and now Southland is having to look at downgrading it’s hospital maternity unity.

Now it’s here. Their communication has collapsed into shambles. Our supply chains are under stress and a ‘critical worker register’ could take another two weeks.

They have been absolutely negligent and incompetent- but heaven forbid we question them! And her partner has behaved like an utter dick.[/quote]
I have huge sympathy for people in Auckland as the experience must have been quite different to the rest of the country

You Kiwis. If you're not willing to copy the UK and credit it's thought leadership and superior competence the least you can do if repeatedly say you've got it wrong and try and make amends. Perhaps borrow and burn billions of whatever currency you mistakenly use instead of Sterling and encourage an appropriate number to self-euthenise to match the UK's excess mortality. Don't try and pretend your economy hasn't been more screwed than the UK in some stoic Kiwi delusion.

@TheKeatingFive

This, in itself, is a complacent statement.

What you see as complacency, I think increasingly people are seeing as realism.

Covid isn't going anywhere, it's getting more infectious rather than less. It can't be contained without severe restrictions or full border closures and these things carry enormous costs and are not sustainable long term.

Thankfully we now have vaccines, boosters, anti virals and better treatments. There comes a tipping point where the costs of suppression outweigh the benefits.

So yes, people will get covid and that's the reality of the world we live in now. But getting covid now is not the same experience as getting covid in March 2020.

I agree with all of that. And in keeping with it being bloody ridiculous to compare the UK to NZ regarding covid response, the tipping point in NZ may be different to the tipping point in the UK.

@Snowcov

Seriously feel that people like Arden should be in jail for the human rights abuses of people who can't see their family/ travel home. It's appalling that this woman continues this in the face of a successful vaccine and a milder virus. No point fearing dying if you can't live. Such extreme measure are only necessary (in their view) because she opted for 0 Covid for so long that the floodgates will be opened case wise as soon as people from abroad are let in. They can't back down.

What do you think about the 243 people that, on average, have died of CV on each of the last 7 days in the UK ?

Do they matter anymore?

Their plan is completely sensible, within 3 months NZ will be vaccinated, they'll come out of restrictions on travel and have had very few deaths, deaths like my Nan's

What is out of control is the vitriol towards the democratically elected PM. Threats to kill her or rape her. Misogynistic name calling. She has done so well to rise above it and would not receive this wild offensive hate if she were a man.

She would not, and it is awful that she is receiving such threats. However she has ridden roughshod over women's rights

@Dinosauria

What is out of control is the vitriol towards the democratically elected PM. Threats to kill her or rape her. Misogynistic name calling. She has done so well to rise above it and would not receive this wild offensive hate if she were a man.

She would not, and it is awful that she is receiving such threats. However she has ridden roughshod over women's rights

Really?

@TheKeatingFive

This, in itself, is a complacent statement.

What you see as complacency, I think increasingly people are seeing as realism.

Covid isn't going anywhere, it's getting more infectious rather than less. It can't be contained without severe restrictions or full border closures and these things carry enormous costs and are not sustainable long term.

Thankfully we now have vaccines, boosters, anti virals and better treatments. There comes a tipping point where the costs of suppression outweigh the benefits.

So yes, people will get covid and that's the reality of the world we live in now. But getting covid now is not the same experience as getting covid in March 2020.

Yes, things have changed and improved and you're spot-on. That's why NZ has moved away (a bit) from the isolationist policy it's pursued and is now into managing Covid, not aiming to be zero-Covid.

Sorry to hear about the experience of an Aucklander with children here. My cousins in Auckland have reported several lockdowns and seem to have been hit quite badly (they too have children and also elderly parents in the south who they were unable to see for some time).

Someone asked about Australia. I have friends in Perth who spent the first year of Covid laughing at the UK and America (their home countries) but that seems to have changed in the last six months. There's been panic-buying and there are empty shelves in their supermarkets (loo roll and washing up liquid were the things mentioned last week). They have talked several times of realising how isolated Perth is and finding it unsettling. They're talking about moving to Melbourne or Adelaide. If they can't get work there they may end up back here. I think it's really started to sink in that Covid is going to be around long-term and that lockdowns and travel bans may not be disappearing completely.

It’s difficult to make any fair comparisons between a country like the UK and NZ. However, in the UK there seems to be a level of acceptance of the staggeringly high mortality rates. Obviously that doesn’t mean any British person is comfortable with this. Although the strain is showing New zealanders did manage for a long time to enjoy freedoms afforded to them by their isolation from the rest of the word. They have not experienced the deaths and illness on a large scale. They havn’t gotten ‘used’ to that as we have in the UK. I think there’s also an element of New Zealander’s understandably being quite anxious about opening up. I think they could have invested more energy into propping up their hospitals to offset the inevitable increasing illnesses from covid.

My personal view is that the NZ strategy would have worked if the vaccines had actually stopped people from catching the virus and stopped people transmitting it. We were told this would be the case a year or so ago but over time we’ve realised this is not case at all. My husband is triple jabbed but has had covid twice ( no he’s not Keir Starmer ). He caught probably delay after the football in July and then again probably omincron a couple of weeks ago ( also probably football watching related). My daughter double jabbed has also had it and my son single jabbed too.
It’s clear to me that the vaccines worked however. My husband felt the most poorly but really nothing serious and my daughter and son were fine.
That is a problem with a zero covid strategy , it’s just unrealistic with the vaccines we currently have. And I think NZ government know this ( or they should do by now).
I do think they should look at the U.K. strategy of our summer 2021, letting cases circulate in the summer months to hopefully reduce a winter spike. It’s a good strategy where there are no easy answers and no perfect exit plan that doesn’t involve thousands of cases.

@TheKeatingFive

This, in itself, is a complacent statement.

What you see as complacency, I think increasingly people are seeing as realism.

Covid isn't going anywhere, it's getting more infectious rather than less. It can't be contained without severe restrictions or full border closures and these things carry enormous costs and are not sustainable long term.

Thankfully we now have vaccines, boosters, anti virals and better treatments. There comes a tipping point where the costs of suppression outweigh the benefits.

So yes, people will get covid and that's the reality of the world we live in now. But getting covid now is not the same experience as getting covid in March 2020.

I have seen complacency on MN regarding Covid since early 2020, and ongoingly over the last two years. So it was never about 'realism' per se.

I’m a NZer living in the U.K. I think NZ has done a good job at minimising deaths and illness from Covid, but they have caused a lot of unnecessary pain to NZers overseas.

I haven’t seen any of my family since 2019. I have grieved alone, lived through the isolation of a pandemic and had a baby that has yet to meet its grandparents, uncles and aunties and will never meet his great grandfather, who passed away recently. On top of this,the place I thought was my home has treated me like I don’t belong there or have a right to feel homesick.

Once Covid was eliminated from NZ, it was the suffering of NZers overseas that kept the country safe. I wish the government and NZers had been grateful for that but instead we are constantly being told to keep our suffering to ourselves.

Many NZers will concede MIQ is a broken system, but they are happy to let it exist as is because it ultimately benefits them. The people who it affects are out of sight and out of mind. I am desperate for friends and family to acknowledge what I’ve gone through, but their silence and lack of support through this whole experience has been deafening. I don’t know what the answer to MIQ is but NZ could have eased the pain of me and many other NZers overseas if they had just treated us with some kindness.

They borders are not completely shut but I think you have to be a passport holder to gain entry. The system is super complicated.

Our neighbour who is a passport holder went a short while ago after getting an "in" via their lottery system. She then had to organise flights, a quarantine hotel and tests within a short period of time.

Fine for someone with money and time (which she has) but not fine for most. But she wants to see family, grandchildren.

It's insane and sad.

I have seen complacency on MN regarding Covid since early 2020, and ongoingly over the last two years. So it was never about 'realism' per se.

This doesn't make much sense as a comment. The situation evolves, you understand that right?

What you see as 'complacency' in terms of the likelihood of catching omincron is simply facing facts. Unless NZ keeps it borders shut for years on end, it's going to happen.

Someone asked how things are in Australia: Victoria, which is one of the states that has a high caseload, effectively put itself into lockdown. This was worse than an actual lockdown for many businesses, because it came without support. www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-19/victoria-melbourne-covid-shadow-lockdown-cbd-mobility/100753496

As to the NZ situation--around 3% of kids who contract COVID will need hospital care without vaccination. Trying to get that number much smaller is a VERY good idea given NZ hospital capacity.

Once Covid was eliminated from NZ, it was the suffering of NZers overseas that kept the country safe. I wish the government and NZers had been grateful for that but instead we are constantly being told to keep our suffering to ourselves.

Yes, I think we've all seen similar in terms of people being required to minimise the effects of lockdowns. I'm so sorry, it sounds awful.

The idea that the U.K. is full of complacent people who haven’t had a hard time and haven’t sacrificed to do difficult things from some posting from o/s really is misplaced.

NZ have had a far easier time due to border control which is made possible by their geography. Aucklanders have had to lockdown too which is tough even without high deaths.

It’s odd that after all this we get the whole selfish, complacent jibe.. actually not odd just incorrect and fairly irritating.

@Snowcov

Seriously feel that people like Arden should be in jail for the human rights abuses of people who can't see their family/ travel home. It's appalling that this woman continues this in the face of a successful vaccine and a milder virus. No point fearing dying if you can't live. Such extreme measure are only necessary (in their view) because she opted for 0 Covid for so long that the floodgates will be opened case wise as soon as people from abroad are let in. They can't back down.

This is a bonkers statement

What you see as 'complacency' in terms of the likelihood of catching omincron is simply facing facts.

You're ascribing meanings to my comments that I didn't make.

There has a been a complacency for two years about the significance of others' deaths, and also a complacent ignorance of the situation for the rest of the world, unless there is a point to be scored in which case NZ is a suitable punching bag.

Don't see any threads complaining about Bolsonaro's handling of the pandemic...

There has a been a complacency for two years about the significance of others' deaths

Can you point out where this is in evidence here?

Don't see any threads complaining about Bolsonaro's handling of the pandemic

Well I expect Brazilians are less well respresented on here than NZers and people in the U.K. have fewer connections with that country.

I'm not commenting on NZ for shits and giggles. My SIL and her children live there, so it affects my MIL and DH very significantly that they haven't been able to see them or have no real visibility as to when they might.