Deaths from Covid alone in 2020 = 9,400

[Whydidimarryhim]

There has been a freedom of information release from the Office of National Statistics (ONS) - Jan 7th 22
There data show that total deaths from Covid in 2020 - this is the number of deaths from adults who had NO underlying issues ie heart disease/diabetes etc - the total No is 9400.
From Jan 2021 to Sept 2021 the total deaths from Covid alone - was 0-64 age range = 2225 and 65+ 5746. All this is for England and Wales
This information is on utube from Dr John Campbell - He has been covering Covid since late 2019.
What is interesting is that this info hasn’t been on the news.

[quote Kendodd]With regard the effects on mental health, suicide rates actually fell in 2020, as did self harm. This suggests to me that lockdown overall did not harm mental health, and infact might even have benefited it. If society, work, school etc is too stressful to engage in lockdown and remote working/school might have been a relief for lots of people. If this is the case then it raises questions about how we organise our society and if our normal way of life is actually harming mental health.

www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/research-policy/coronavirus-and-suicide/one-year-on-data-on-covid-19/what-do-we-know-about-coronavirus-and-suicide-risk/[/quote]
I think the issue is that many people experienced mental health crisis for the first time during the pandemic and they are very vocal about it ( and rightly so) but the reality is that there was social exclusion, anxiety, financial and educational inequalities long before covid. It's just that many chose not to listen or care because it didn't effect them.

And yes John Campbell is not qualified to be making the statements he does (PhD in nurse education), and his videos are filled with basic epidemiological errors, quoting retracted papers and speculation not based on robust evidence.

Again, this has been discussed to death on MN.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4452413-Omicron-Optimism-from-the-lovely-John-Campbell

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4371621-Dr-John-Campbell-YouTube-videos-what-happened?msgid=114074569

It seems to be that a couple of posters attempt to make arguements they cannot back up, then start a new thread with the same claims.

Blimey, how dare JesusInACabbageVan have a name referring to a MN in-joke? It's almost like she's a Mumsnetter!

@Cornettoninja

I’m going to make very sure my DD’s education includes a brief overview of statistics and critical thinking.

Amen @Cornettoninja

"Excess non-Covid deaths at home" is not the same as excess non-Covid deaths.

And again, what state would the NHS be in if we had left the people risk assessing themselves, is such a shit way as they did?

I generally find that people who make statements that everyone other than them is an idiot incapable of making their own decisions are best ignored

@leafyygreens

And yes John Campbell is not qualified to be making the statements he does (PhD in nurse education), and his videos are filled with basic epidemiological errors, quoting retracted papers and speculation not based on robust evidence.

Again, this has been discussed to death on MN.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4452413-Omicron-Optimism-from-the-lovely-John-Campbell

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4371621-Dr-John-Campbell-YouTube-videos-what-happened?msgid=114074569

It seems to be that a couple of posters attempt to make arguements they cannot back up, then start a new thread with the same claims.

It is just your opinion

Others can have a different opinion. You do know that?

And again, what state would the NHS be in if we had left the people risk assessing themselves, is such a shit way as they did?

The NHS would have collapsed. For a start all the medics would have been sick.
There is an argument that nothing should have been done and we should have just let covid sweep over us, bury the dead, and get on. I don't agree but it's not completely without merit.
Covid could have been extinguished completely in Jan/Feb 2020 if world leaders had been on the ball, unfortunately for us all they weren't. The other factor is that if at the start hundreds of billions was thrown at this, isolating a small number of cases, the electorate would never have forgiven world leaders and would be screaming about the money they'd spend. Hopefully we will have learnt a lesson and we the next new virus emerges we will pay attention, although I'm doubtful we, the public, will have learnt anything.

@Kendodd I would bet good money that our future responses to similar threats will be just as lax. We’ve learnt nothing.

Dr Fauci was quoted at the beginning of the pandemic as saying that any successful response to a pandemic will look like an over reaction in hindsight i.e if something works people won’t recognise the value of the response because there’s no ‘proof’ of the predicted consequences.

Basically humans don’t do well with the concept of prevention apparently.

That's simply untrue - read David Spiegelhalter's article. The excess non-Covid deaths at home are largely displaced from hospital/care homes/hospices. That raises many issues but doesn't demonstrate that the overall excess death figures are not caused by Covid. Looking at the week by week patterns shows that the excess deaths are dominated by Covid deaths.

I'm not sure why you are quoting an article talking about excess deaths when we have already established huge numbers of excess deaths globally have been caused by measures to tackle covid contrary to the virus itself

😬 Sorry, is anyone else able to help David out with this? I really DO need to get on!

[quote Cornettoninja]@Kendodd I would bet good money that our future responses to similar threats will be just as lax. We’ve learnt nothing.

Dr Fauci was quoted at the beginning of the pandemic as saying that any successful response to a pandemic will look like an over reaction in hindsight i.e if something works people won’t recognise the value of the response because there’s no ‘proof’ of the predicted consequences.

Basically humans don’t do well with the concept of prevention apparently.[/quote]
Yes

From the very start of the pandemic this has been the isssue - no "counterfactual" (i.e., no parallel universe situation where you can see how the pandemic would have progressed without measures like lockdowns or vaccines). There's just flawed comparisons which people jump on.

This is why you get so many threads saying "BUT COVID deaths were lower this time last year when we had no vaccines ergo vaccines don't work" etc etc.

@Whydidimarryhim

Also - genuinely - why are people still quoting John Campbell? He has demonstrated many times over he has no understanding of epidemiology & is actively incentivised to make controversial content given how much money he makes from youtube.

So many decent scientists with relevant training & expertise who have provided commentary on deaths in 2020-2021. I'll see if I can find some to link.

@CUniverse

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Not the PP but it has been explained to you so many times, with examples, the problem with Campbell's videos. Explaining these issues, rather than just saying HE'S WRONG, doesn't make someone a dictator.

You claimed this on one thread, disappeared, and then tried to start another one. I see both have been linked.

I heard on GB news, 17,500 deaths over the past two years according to official office for National statistics data were caused from or with covid, where there were no other comorbidities. The average age of death being over 80.

17,500 is of course very sad, to think of the families missing their loved ones, but this is sadly quite normal figures for two bad flu years and the economy and people’s lives haven’t been subjected to restrictions like this before, it does make you think. This has really shocked me.

I would bet good money that our future responses to similar threats will be just as lax. We’ve learnt nothing.

Yes I agree.
I think in some ways covid just wasn't serious enough for us to pay attention to. I suspect that if under 10s had been dying at the same rate as over 80s the world response would have been very different and hopefully covid would have been eradicated. Apparently Ebola has a 50% death rate and when that raises its head we do pay attention quickly.

@Roselilly36

I heard on GB news, 17,500 deaths over the past two years according to official office for National statistics data were caused from or with covid, where there were no other comorbidities. The average age of death being over 80.

17,500 is of course very sad, to think of the families missing their loved ones, but this is sadly quite normal figures for two bad flu years and the economy and people’s lives haven’t been subjected to restrictions like this before, it does make you think. This has really shocked me.

What do you interpret from the average age of death being "over 80"? @Roselilly36

[quote Cornettoninja]@Kendodd I would bet good money that our future responses to similar threats will be just as lax. We’ve learnt nothing.

Dr Fauci was quoted at the beginning of the pandemic as saying that any successful response to a pandemic will look like an over reaction in hindsight i.e if something works people won’t recognise the value of the response because there’s no ‘proof’ of the predicted consequences.

Basically humans don’t do well with the concept of prevention apparently.[/quote]
Maybe, but we can start to see the impact of different approaches taken by various countries.

People will talk about cultural difference etc but even in this country we did have high rates of compliance when measures were brought in.

I’d like to see a proper detailed study of comparisons of the responses worldwide. I don’t think we’d do too well and that’s a lesson worth learning.

The risk of a pandemic was on the risk register well before covid - but no one ever imagined it would be real so didn’t prepare properly. I hope that changes now.

Link

www.gbnews.uk/gb-views/mark-dolan-every-single-covid-measure-you-can-think-of-has-got-to-go-lock-stock-and-barrel/210746

@Roselilly36

I heard on GB news, 17,500 deaths over the past two years according to official office for National statistics data were caused from or with covid, where there were no other comorbidities. The average age of death being over 80.

17,500 is of course very sad, to think of the families missing their loved ones, but this is sadly quite normal figures for two bad flu years and the economy and people’s lives haven’t been subjected to restrictions like this before, it does make you think. This has really shocked me.

You’re taking GB news as your source?

And what about those who died with covid? They may have survived if they didn’t have covid or do they not count.

Finally, those that died of covid would have needed medical treatment. They don’t just catch covid then die, just like that.

The risk of a pandemic was on the risk register well before covid - but no one ever imagined it would be real so didn’t prepare properly. I hope that changes now.

Actually I think plenty of (experts) people imagined it would be very real, they just weren't listened to.

[quote Roselilly36]Link

www.gbnews.uk/gb-views/mark-dolan-every-single-covid-measure-you-can-think-of-has-got-to-go-lock-stock-and-barrel/210746[/quote]
I just read this. Aside from the lack of facts, accuracy and balance, it’s a simply appalling piece of writing. He keeps undermining the points he’s trying to make.