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I have a situation........

77 replies

MistressoftheDarkSide · 09/01/2022 13:59

I'm going to start this by saying, predictably, I am not intending to start any sort of bunfight or controversy, so while this is a personal situation, in order to avoid any more emotional overload I am going to frame it almost as a scientific abstract, because I have questions that as yet cannot be answered officially, and I need help - neutral, fact based help please, in order to correctly frame those questions when the time is right without pissing anyone off.

On Wednesday my DP, male, 52, collapsed with a serious brain bleed. Within 6 hours he was having life saving surgery to remove a clot from the brain. He came through it and we are now waiting to see the long term outcome. I am getting updated 2/3 times a day by ringing the ward as instructed.

At hospital number 1 he tested positive for Covid - he was asymptomatic, double vaxxed and had his booster almost one week exactly prior to this happening. He had complained of a couple of headaches in that week but they responded to normal painkillers. He and I had a quiet relaxed weekend. We did not go out at New Years and had one friend who visited, just recovered from Covid and negative on LFT. He worked on Tuesday, was fine in the evening, and his collapse occurred at around 5am on Wednesday morning.

My questions about this are:

Would the test be a blood test or a swab? I ask this because when I was allowed to see him before transfer (because at that stage I was being told death was absolutely a possibility, he was in semi seizure and I can't imagine swabbing would gave been an option, even prior to intubation and sedation which happened after we were notified of his test.

If it was a blood test result, might it be residual from the Covid we had mildly around the end of August?

As a close contact, and unvaccinated (just don't go there) when I got home I did an LFT which was negative- todays test is also negative and I will continue to test and isolate of course because after 14 days they will test him again and we might be able to visit - although we have to take that under medical advisement.

Test and trace called him (hollow laugh) and if course i answered- as ut was the day after and Asymptomatic Covid is the last thing on my mind they have graciously said they wont pursue me till Tuesday but contact details are mandatory. Everyone who was a contact are aware of the situation and as yet there are no reports if positive tests. Omicron has not been mentioned.

Further questions - he was on a ventilator due to the collapse and surgery for around 36 hours, and is now on minimal oxygen support but has a mild chest infection treated with antibiotics in the last 24 hours which the doctors say is 99% due to being on the ventilator not Covid, as it hasn't affected his breathing much.

Next 48 hours are obviously crucial, but they are already talking about transfer back to our local hospital rather than staying at the specialist unit, which us very encouraging but will of course depend on many variables so I remain pragmatic, stoic and a few more inches below the ceiling than I was on Wednesday (possibly the longest scariest day if my life so far and I've had some doozies, believe me)

Other issues are confusion, agitation etc - normal in the circumstances I'm told - but he's asking for me so I believe his memory might be okish so far. His left side is paralysed, but he has speech though slurry and jumbled- this is likely to improve as various medications are reduced.

A medication given to deal with agitation caused a spike in blood pressure, obviously not ideal in the circumstances so that has been stopped and he is stable again. His drain has been removed, and he has staples (actually he's probably going to live that down the line for various reasons.....yes I know ut sounds weird but if you knew him you'd totally get it).

Disclaimers - I not a fragile nor hysterical person. Knowledge and power are my watchwords, and I can absolutely ignore anything that I recognise as unlikely or unhelpful.

I'm putting this here objectively to gather any insights from those who may have knowledge or insight or can point me to anything I've missed in my forays around google.

I appreciate every case is different and ultimately it will be his Doctirs who can give me the accurate picture, but one if the ways I process trauma is to work through as much as I can until it "levels out in my brain". Compartmentalising is my thing.

So have at it if you like. Or not. I have a great family and friends support network so am covered emotionally, but my tendency to to analyse can be a little tedious especially as I am mindful everyone around us is in shock and highly anxious too.

So in some ways I'm hoping this might be the other outlet I need in order to keep the pressure if them to a minimum.

I really don't want this to become any sort of battleground- I don't want the thread deleted but if it offends, so be it.....

Oh, the phrase used is "intracerebular haemorrhage" but none if the medics have said stroke..... yet.

Thank you in advance.

OP posts:
Egghead68 · 09/01/2022 14:06

I’m sorry you are going through this.

The blood clot on the brain could be caused by Covid.

Egghead68 · 09/01/2022 14:07

The need for ventilation and oxygen support could be caused by Covid.

I am not sure why you are saying that he is a symptomatic or questioning whether he actually has Covid.

I hope he gets well soon.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 09/01/2022 14:07

Completely asymptomatic Covid? This is a question I want to find statistics on - but thank you for your reply.

OP posts:
Thiswayorthatway · 09/01/2022 14:08

You really need to be speaking to the doctors and not not Egghead68

JassyRadlett · 09/01/2022 14:11

I don’t have any particular insights here, OP, but wanted to wish you and your husband well and sending lots of strength. I process in a very similar way to you and hope you get good, well-referenced information here.

itsgettingweird · 09/01/2022 14:17

Asymptomatic covid is very subjective.

Some people will have a day of tiredness and that is a symptom but they don't see it as a symptom because we often can feel like this. And that can be a virus we don't know about either.

But ICH can be caused by Covid 19. So I guess the question is can that cause ICH without anyone other of the typical symptoms?

It maybe worth looking up Kate Garraways stories of her DH Derek. I remember she said his symptom was a sore shoulder.

HalfShrunkMoreToGo · 09/01/2022 14:19

@MistressoftheDarkSide

Completely asymptomatic Covid? This is a question I want to find statistics on - but thank you for your reply.
Are you classifying it as unsymptomatic because he didn't have the 3 classics of cough, temp and loss of taste/smell?

The list is not really fit for purpose, these are the 21 most commonly reported symptoms

covid.joinzoe.com/post/the-20-symptoms-of-covid-19-to-watch-out-for

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 09/01/2022 14:21

I’m not really sure what your question is, but my DM was admitted in Nov 20 after a “funny turn” which was diagnosed as a transient ischaemic attack. On admission she tested postive (as did half her care home) but was asymptomatic for 3 days. After 3 days she deteriorated quickly (and fortunately immediately received remdesivir and dexamethasone, so she made a good recovery).

So your DH could be positive and asymptomatic. A practising HCP will be able to tell you whether they will have swabbed someone in his condition, but I would think they will have.

In terms of the diagnosis, a haemorrhage is not a clot. The effects can be similar - lack of blood flow and therefore oxygen to part of the brain - but a haemorrhage is a bleed, and a clot blocks up a blood vessel.

I hope your DH is OK and makes a good recovery.

Cornettoninja · 09/01/2022 14:24

Are you questioning whether his condition has been caused by the vaccine or the covid? I think it will be complex to pick apart given the timeframes for both are so close together. It really is a question for his doctors.

I hope your DP is comfortable and makes good progress. Do you have people to support you?

LIZS · 09/01/2022 14:25

The covid test was most likely a swab. I would think his treatment and outcomes are complicated by the Covid diagnosis. It is nit uncommon to get hospital acquired infections

CherieBabySpliffUp · 09/01/2022 14:29

Am 100% not an antivaxxer but this could have all been caused by his booster.

LIZS · 09/01/2022 14:30

@CherieBabySpliffUp

Am 100% not an antivaxxer but this could have all been caused by his booster.
Or any number of other factors Hmm op, what do the doctors suggest as the cause, does he have any history of blood pressure issues for example?
StanleyGreen · 09/01/2022 14:33

@CherieBabySpliffUp

Am 100% not an antivaxxer but this could have all been caused by his booster.
I agree. But a lot of people will be along in a minute to flame you. So tighten your seatbelt. People don't like hearing stuff.
Budapestdreams · 09/01/2022 15:10

Headache is a very common symptom of Covid so I don't think he was asymptomatic.
Yes, any brain bleed is essentially a stroke. Whether there is any lasting damage or not won't be known for a while yet.
No, the Covid test will not be picking up infection from August. He has a new Covid infection right now. Omicron is very infectious and even though he is vaxxed he can still catch it. His booster was quite recent so didn't really have time to take effect (takes 14 days for full effect).

I'm so sorry you are both going through this. His current medical problems may be due to Covid, or something else, or a mixture.

Just focus on looking after yourself and I hope he makes a full recovery.

shenanigans5 · 09/01/2022 15:24

Haemorrhagic stroke can be caused by a number of factors including covid. Hope he makes a full recovery.

Cornettoninja · 09/01/2022 16:46

@CherieBabySpliffUp

Am 100% not an antivaxxer but this could have all been caused by his booster.
Neither am I but it’s a possibility. I maintain it would be quite hard to reliably say one way or another as he had a booster and confirmed infection within a week of one another. Both raise your risk.

Personally I would advise not focussing on it if at all possible because I think you’ll get different answers off different doctors and it’s really going to come down to opinion.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 09/01/2022 17:28

Thanks all - replies are pretty much as I expected and match my current thoughts.

He has no known underlying health conditions like high blood pressure.

A clot was removed.

I know Covid is real. I am not questioning his diagnosis.

Headaches (which resolved for him with average painkillers and were not debilitating) have been associated with both Covid, and vaccines, so it will probably be impossible to tell at all.

I refer to his asymptomatic status as life threatening Covid has usually been reported with a cluster of symptoms, cumulative deterioration and as I understand it organ failure.

He had no respiratory symptoms at all, or temperature.

I suppose a question I have now is if Covid can just cause a bleed on the brain in essential isolation, then people need to be aware of that.

I will reiterate that the doctors are attributing his chest infection to the experience of being ventilated, not Covid and I would hope they no.

I can't imagine how difficult it was to swab him if they did given the tremors he was suffering before he was intubated....

And yes, I am aware of the timing after booster but..... not willing to speculate unless I can find some data that shows similar cases.... which obviously will be very rare...

Thank you for all the well wishes .....

Am on a constant merry go round of keeping important family and friends in the loop about 3 times a day.... but I have a phone tree going and a facebook point for wider circle.....he's a popular person with a colourful career so..... yeah, it's like being PA for a rockstar at the moment lol ......

But thank you all again.

OP posts:
s1h2o3na · 09/01/2022 17:32

I'm so sorry to hear of your situation . From my understanding ( and please discuss with his doctors as i am a.n. other on a social media site!) adverse clotting responses are possibly with all the vaccines(though pfizer and moderna considered far,far lower risk hence the move to choosing mRNA vaccines over and above AZ) as vaccines generate an inflammatory response which can trigger particular biological responses in the lining of the blood vessels.
There have been cases of immune thrombocytopenia reported following people receiving vaccines but I think it would be challenging to link in your partners situation as he also has a concurrent COVID infection which is well known to impact on the blood clotting response (for eg. my family member didn't need to be admitted with covid itself but later ended up in hospital with a clot caused by covid .) As a 52 year old he would entirely fit the criteria of those being well advised to get the booster as the risks of Covid will far outweigh the risks of the vaccine but I know that is hard to think about when he is so poorly and to ask "what if" is human nature. Sending thoughts and prayers.

BelleHathor · 09/01/2022 18:13

So sorry to hear this @MistressoftheDarkSide, sending you all the love, strength and prayers ❤.

As S1h20na said I'm sure your mind is full of "What Ifs" but it's impossible to know. DP will be receiving the best care and treatments right now and as best as you can try and take care of yourself xxx

CrunchyCarrot · 09/01/2022 18:26

Very sorry to hear this news, Mistress. Flowers

I imagine it's entirely possible this is just shit happening and not related to Covid/vaccines at all. I think it'll be impossible to tell, so perhaps best to focus on your DP's recovery (but I totally understand how one's thoughts keep trying to figure out what and why!).

lljkk · 09/01/2022 19:31

Friend had a stroke age 43.
It's hard to say if he had any risk factors, maybe BMI in overweight zone. Is literally all.

This was in 2009, so basically, some people will get brain clogs for no reason that can ever get identified. You'll never know why for sure, OP.

Hope your DH recovers well.

HarrietteNightingale · 09/01/2022 19:45

My 64 year old DDad had a sudden haemorrhagic stroke and passed away alone at home, so no medical attention, in October 2020. Before any of the vaccines, but it's possible he might have had COVID asymptomatically leading up to it, but I have no particular reason to assume that.

I hope your DP makes a full and swift recovery, and make sure you take care of yourself Thanks

SmallElephant · 09/01/2022 19:59

The only thing I would be fairly certain of is that the test isn't picking up Covid from last august - that sounds very unlikely indeed. So I would say he definitely had/had Covid. Apart from that, as others have said, it's hard to draw conclusions as there are different possible explanations.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 09/01/2022 20:36

@BelleHathor and @CrunchyCarrot thank you Flowers and thank you all for your input.

I know we will probably never really know the why or how....that's the hardest part. Ironic that just a few days ago we were planning on really getting our shit together after losing my Mum, lockdowns, trying to keep our business going and playing geriatric roulette with our five remaining elderly parents - yay for broken families eh?

This is the longest time we've been apart since his Dad was at deaths door about 4 years ago and I couldnt go with him as we had just moved his Mum in with us as her Alzheiners had gotten to that stage where she was ready for a home but also couldn't live independently...... she is now completely "gone" and in a brilliant care home - thank God she at least is spared this agony. I had to notify the home as I'm the second on the LPOA and they need to know to contact me....the staff were so shocked and so lovely.....asking if there's anything they can do.....

But alas we are in limbo - it's too soon for any timeframe of recovery and I am aware that only as each day passes will his chances improve and also that despite the hopeful signs things can still change, but I'm trying to be optimistic and practical - my admin to do list is as long as my arm for this week.....

Thank God my son found him as quickly as he did...... had my DP not been so confused he went up an extra floor to his room not ours, and still been in the bathroom or anywhere else in the house .....it doesn't bear thinking about.... I knew he'd got up to go to the loo but it was 4.30 and I'd gone back to sleep....

And thank God the ambulance came in under ten minutes..... he was in surgery by noon...... the NHS saved his life. One day I'll do something but not sure what to express my gratitude.....

If I could just stop my brain from cycling through the possible outcomes..... permanent paralysis? Speech impairment? Too early to tell, but 6 also know recovery may be good...... but it's so hard to be patient..... and psychologically, well, he's proud, independent likes to be "in charge" ..... hell be hating this....in fact what language he has has been noted on as "colourful" which is just like him....and made ne grin....

Oh Lord, sorry for rambling on but I'm trying to be calm and strong for all his family and friends so it's kind of good to just offload here x to anyone who's been through this - you have my deepest respect and sympathy....

It's in no way "about me" I know, but there is an "us" and he is my constant....we've had our ups and downs but were basically like bread and jam as someone said the day it happened......right now I'm stale breadcrumbs.....

Sleep will help but I need to do the late call, then let the three most important contacts know, then I can sleep....

Yeah, thanks 2022, you were supposed to be "our year"..... ha bloody ha.....

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 09/01/2022 20:42

Am really sorry to hear about your DH and I hope he gets better as soon as possible. Please don’t forget to look after yourself as well.
As for what caused this I think you should listen to his Doctors rather cold than drive yourself crazy with “what ifs”
As for Asymptomatic Covid - I was very ill over Christmas with headache, fatigue, sore throat,aches etc and tested negative . DH had a dental appointment so thought he would do a LF just in case, even though he was completely well. He tested Positive