Could this be any more selfish?

[whatatanker]

Father has tested positive on LFT. He does a hobby which involves lots of other people (3 days a week and 60 people). It is outside, but does involve close contact. He's done this hobby twice since he's found out he's positive.

He's been going about as usual with symptoms. He is not isolating (in fact went to his second home - over 100 miles away) last weekend, knowing full well that he was positive. He's been going in to shops, meeting up with people etc.

He has only told DM that he's positive. I'm not supposed to know.

I'm appalled. He's a selfish narcissistic bastard and it doesn't surprise me, but I'm not sure that I can have a decent relationship with him now that I know the extent of his selfishness.

@worriedandannoyed

Thousand of doctors and nurses are off sick due to isolation. It doesn't mean they're not well enough to work, they just aren't able to because of isolating.

They aren't working because they are infectious

The more people who are infected, the more people are likely to need intervention.

It's really not a difficult concept.

Scrap isolation and we can all go to work regardless.

So for example, you would also be happy to have a HCW with chicken pox going to look after people who ill in hospital therefire more vulnerable? Even so no ne woud take a young child with chciken pox out and about because of the risk to other more vulnerable people.

Come on. The issue here isn't that people are so ill they cant ut of bed, even though some will be. The issue is that you dont want HCW or carers in care home looking are people who are more vulnerable to the virus.
Most people who are well enough and can work from home are doing so.

Spindley key word in your first quote is may. In actual fact it does present like a
cold for a lot of people. Also the article you've quoted also goes on to discuss promising treatments for curing long covid, but you have omitted that bit.

@Wreath21 totally agree with you.

My post was hardly "hysterical" though, was it?

@carrythecan
Not according to whitty own words last night

The whole point of lockdown was to protect the NHS.

It wasn’t about protecting the general population from ever getting covid. Quite the contrary - it was to keep numbers down so that vulnerable people did not need nhs treatment and overwhelm it.

People need to remember that. So for all all their talk of “living with it” - we can only do that if the NHS has the capacity to handle all the additional cases of covid alongside everything else.

We aren’t there yet. Additional permanent capacity is needed in the nhs. It was struggling before covid so how do people think it will cope with more?

I despair at some people. I really do.

[quote Covidworries]@carrythecan
Not according to whitty own words last night[/quote]
That was his chart!

@carrythecan

Ive just watched it again and whitty most definately says that this is not a mild illness evidenced by hospitalisation (he also said these are not far off getting to last jan levels) and that the majority are in for covid related reasons.

@Iggly

The whole point of lockdown was to protect the NHS.

It wasn’t about protecting the general population from ever getting covid. Quite the contrary - it was to keep numbers down so that vulnerable people did not need nhs treatment and overwhelm it.

People need to remember that. So for all all their talk of “living with it” - we can only do that if the NHS has the capacity to handle all the additional cases of covid alongside everything else.

We aren’t there yet. Additional permanent capacity is needed in the nhs. It was struggling before covid so how do people think it will cope with more?

I despair at some people. I really do.

We aren't there yet

This. Exactly.

How can people know this and still be arguing with it?

Of course we all want to get 'back to normal' (if for nothing other than to inspire the hard of thinking to come up with better insults than "lockdown lover" and "face-nappy") but it is not yet the time.

[quote worriedandannoyed]@PAFMO you wouldn't go and play golf with a group of people if you had the flu because you'd be too unwell. But you wouldn't be sitting indoors long after you felt well enough to go out 'just in case' you were contagious.

The tide is turning regarding testing and isolating. This cannot and will not go on forever. Those on this post who have such strong views are CEV I assume. I'm sorry you have to assume YOU will have to take precautions, not the rest of society. [/quote]
I haven't commented on this thread before worriedandannoyed, but I am CEV (there are a lot of us about), and yes, I absolutely understand your desire, and indeed need, to start living your life 'normally' again. I also wish that for myself and all the other thousands of CEV sufferers out there.

However, it is very difficult for me, and I am sure many others as well, to even do anything as simple as a grocery shop in a supermarket. Occassionally I would like, and appreciate, being able to do my own shopping, choose which loaf of bread looks the crustiest, has the most flour sprinkled on top, maybe even very slightly burned at the edges, and maybe be tempted by something I see on the shelves - a particularly beckoning punnet of strawberries, and ooh, a small pot of clotted cream would go very well with those! These are tiny, stupid things, I know, but just sometimes it is nice (and makes such a massive, exponential difference, to my life, that a healthy person could probably never understand unless they sadly become CEV too) to do something very ordinary.

So why don't I? I don't know, maybe it is because even though I am "lucky" enough to be in a wheelchair - lucky because the fact that I may be extra vunerable is obvious to all - that doesn't stop someone (often either unmasked, or not having their nose covered) from leaning over me, often whilst putting their hand on my shoulder or arm (in a "being friendly, and it helps stop them from overbalancing way"), and saying, "I just want to reach this quickly then I will be out of your way ha ha ha", but they often don't say anything at all, they just reach across me whilst breathing on me, then hurry on to do their next bit of shopping, which they are probably finding as boring as hell. I should probably also mention that I am double masked (so breathing isn't much fun), wearing frequently changed disposable gloves, and I even sanitise my gloves after I have touched something in the shop, and I wait, noticebly because I am in my motorised wheelchair (not a mobility scooter) sometimes for ages, for a 2 metre gap between me and someone else who is standing at an isle that I want to look at too, but other people just push past me to go there themselves (when I remonstrated once - very politely - with someone, when the 2 metres, and masks, and singing happy birthday twice whilst washing your hands, and clapping for the NHS, was still very much a thing, he shouted at me and said "it's not all about you". I hardly ever cry because of past trauma that had me crying until I couldn't cry anymore - it is like I have run out of tears - but I nearly cried then, only my pride managed to stop me.

So yes worriedandannoyed, those of us who are vunerable (and yes, I am triple jabbed) know only to well that it is up to us to look after ourselves, and to isolate for the rest of our lives if necessary (okay, I am probably being a tad overdramatic here, I have high hopes that Omicron will act as a stabilizer, and help turn Covid 19 into little more than a common cold for most of us), but it would be so kind and helpful for all of us if the rest of the population could just keep it in the back of their minds somewhere, that there are people out there who are still vunerable, and it might even be quite easy to tell who, because when everyone else thinks that "it's all over now", we will probably still have our masks on, and might seem to be standing even further away from you than 'personal space' usually asks for. But I sincerely folks (yuk, was that Hughie Green - for you oldies - that used to say that, I couldn't stand the smarmy git even when I was a child ☺), thank all of you for all the sacrifices you have already made for the NHS and us, and if you have run out of compassion I totally understand.

Turkeyroast Thank you for reminding us so clearly why how we all behave matters. It has reminded me to be more thoughtful. I'm truly sorry that this is so difficult for you and I wish people didn't make it harder.

@BellaChagall

Turkeyroast Thank you for reminding us so clearly why how we all behave matters. It has reminded me to be more thoughtful. I'm truly sorry that this is so difficult for you and I wish people didn't make it harder.

Thank you so much @BellaChagall, that is all that I and I am sure many others ask for 💐

@Iggly

The whole point of lockdown was to protect the NHS.

It wasn’t about protecting the general population from ever getting covid. Quite the contrary - it was to keep numbers down so that vulnerable people did not need nhs treatment and overwhelm it.

People need to remember that. So for all all their talk of “living with it” - we can only do that if the NHS has the capacity to handle all the additional cases of covid alongside everything else.

We aren’t there yet. Additional permanent capacity is needed in the nhs. It was struggling before covid so how do people think it will cope with more?

I despair at some people. I really do.

Yup. And the government (backed up by meddling, puritanical - and comfortably off - whining fuckwits) turned it into a great big moral panic rather than actually funding increased capacity in the NHS. The issue was ALWAYS that the Tories had been running the NHS into the ground in the hope of selling it off and Covid just gave them the opportunity.

A lot of harm has been done by wave after wave of absolute bullshit which has no impact on public health or NHS capacity - don't sit down in the park, don't stay out past respectable people's bedtime, the virus can tell whether your shopping is 'essential' (as classified by people who outsource domestic work and childcare and can't imagine the range of needs that other people might have) etc.
A lot of the control freakery and abuse of power by the authorities was happening before Covid and the pandemic has just provided them with an opportunity to ramp it up.
This is why it is important to push back as much as is safely possible: get your vaccine, wear a mask in enclosed spaces and test when necessary but GO OUT. Go out LOTS. Assert your right to occupy public space, support independent businesses and don't be a fucking grass when you know nothing about other people's circumstances.

@TurkeyRoastvBubbleandSqueek

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry to hear of your experiences in a supermarket that makes it difficult for you to be able to even shop at the moment. I realise this isn't just inconvenient but has an effect on your wellbeing.

Can we also please consider the well-being of many other groups of people in relation to any future restrictions. I don't know a single person who hasn't been affected in the last two years. Teenagers self harming, including massively increased suicide rates. Missed education. Vulnerable children who have been trapped at home. Partners in domestic abuse situations who have been trapped in awful situations. Single parents trying to work and home school with no support network. Those already living in poverty with even more reduced income.

There are many many people who have given up their freedom for the CEV, it isn't that they are tired of it. It's that they can't take any more unless it is absolutely necessary

Can you report it to his hobby club? So they can at least encourage everyone who does it to do an LFT?

including massively increased suicide rates.

@worriedandannoyed

Oh have they released this now? Link please.

[quote worriedandannoyed]@TurkeyRoastvBubbleandSqueek

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry to hear of your experiences in a supermarket that makes it difficult for you to be able to even shop at the moment. I realise this isn't just inconvenient but has an effect on your wellbeing.

Can we also please consider the well-being of many other groups of people in relation to any future restrictions. I don't know a single person who hasn't been affected in the last two years. Teenagers self harming, including massively increased suicide rates. Missed education. Vulnerable children who have been trapped at home. Partners in domestic abuse situations who have been trapped in awful situations. Single parents trying to work and home school with no support network. Those already living in poverty with even more reduced income.

There are many many people who have given up their freedom for the CEV, it isn't that they are tired of it. It's that they can't take any more unless it is absolutely necessary [/quote]
This poster keeps CEV bashing, and her last paragraph on this post is once again punching the false narrative that everybody gave up their liberties for sick people.

I don't know if this is against the rules, but it's certainly not in the spirit.

(BTW, this was in a response to a disabled poster politely posting about her experience).

Oops, meant to hit report.

Will do so, but not really sorry that everyone will see this.

@kittensinthekitchen

including massively increased suicide rates.

@worriedandannoyed

Oh have they released this now? Link please.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/quarterlysuicidedeathregistrationsinengland/2001to2020registrationsandquarter1jantomartoquarter3julytosept2021provisionaldata

Suicide rates have decreased during each quarter of the pandemic since March 2020. At one point, (iirc, it was towards the end of 2020) figures were released (obviously they are all there on the ONS site to verify) that it was interesting to note that suicides were the lowest they had been for some years.

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch

Oops, meant to hit report.

Will do so, but not really sorry that everyone will see this.

I've reported it too.

Thank you @PAFMO that's certainly what I thought I'd read. I knew it was especially reported that suicide rates were lower in 2020 than previously

Personally, I wouldn't fall out with my father about this at this stage of where we are at.

The virus is rife and he won't be the only person in 60 to have it at his club, albeit he might be the only one to know and still be attending. Life needs to resume as normal.

I know people completely berating those unvaccinated, but tested positive at Christmas and still saw their families and travelled to do so. I think it's now a personal responsibility.

[quote worriedandannoyed]@TurkeyRoastvBubbleandSqueek

Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry to hear of your experiences in a supermarket that makes it difficult for you to be able to even shop at the moment. I realise this isn't just inconvenient but has an effect on your wellbeing.

Can we also please consider the well-being of many other groups of people in relation to any future restrictions. I don't know a single person who hasn't been affected in the last two years. Teenagers self harming, including massively increased suicide rates. Missed education. Vulnerable children who have been trapped at home. Partners in domestic abuse situations who have been trapped in awful situations. Single parents trying to work and home school with no support network. Those already living in poverty with even more reduced income.

There are many many people who have given up their freedom for the CEV, it isn't that they are tired of it. It's that they can't take any more unless it is absolutely necessary [/quote]
Ah @worriedandannoyed, I thank you for your polite "thank you to me".

Your first paragraph in your reply to me is very cleverly worded. You are sorry to hear of my experiences in supermarkets, I am sure you are ... My response to one of your posts on this topic was on behalf of all the CEV sufferers who have experiences like mine. Contrary to what that man said to me in the supermarket, I do not, and never have thought that 'it is all about me'. In fact I am reasonably sure that quite early in 2020 when it didn't look like there were going to be enough breathing machines to go around, and that Dr's were going to have to make some very difficult decisions, I stated on here (but it could have been somewhere else) that as a disabled female in my early 60's, that if say for example (I can't remember which example I gave then, but I will give a very easy decision one here) that a Dr had to choose between putting me on a breathing machine, or a pregnant women, I would tell the Dr that it didn't even need him to choose, it would be the pregnant woman who must go on the machine. I would love to live to a very old age, as long as I still have a reasonable quality of life, but of course anyone younger and healthier than me should be given priority. Unfortunately for Drs, that decision would have probably often not been anywhere near so straightforward.

It is possible worriedandannoyed that I may have missed this in your previous posts on this thread, but this is the first time I have noticed you mention all the other people who have been terribly affected by this damned Virus, whether that be by missing treatments and operations, or through their mental health, or for any other reasons - I doubt there are many people out there who have actually enjoyed all the restrictions - therefore I didn't address that part of this whole distressing time. But of course I, and I think all reasonable people, will feel terrible about them as well.

I feel that I must take issue with you when you say
"There are many many people who have given up their freedom for the CEV, ....."
What I have understood from the beginning of this monstrous time is that we have all given up our normal daily lives primarily for the NHS, so that it didn't become overwhelmed, and that certainly wasn't for the CEV, but for everyone, because especially before theOmicron variant, many, many previously healthy people, were becoming very ill, and dying. Even the Prime Minister was extremely ill with it (probably his own fault for telling other people to do what he says, whilst ignoring that advice for him and his ministers), the only health issue that I know that the PM suffered from before he got Covid was being somewhat overweight, although I think probably not morbidly obese.

So I am very grateful to all the people who have followed all the rules, including you 'worried' I am sure, and if any of the people who followed them (and I am sure there are a lot, because I still think that most of the population of the UK are kind and caring people) did so not just because they would be breaking the law not to, and not just for the sake of the NHS, but also because they had in mind any CEV sufferers, then I am sure that like me, most other CEV people will be even more grateful to them. Thank you, thank you, thank you 😊❤

I just want to add 'worried' that I (and probably none of my fellow CEV suffers) actually asked the Government to make all the rules that they did, and may continue to make, and that I hope they were always based on scientists best knowledge. In fact (and I can only speak for myself here) all I have ever wanted was and is, to be allowed my own personal space, not to be touched, breathed on, or coughed on by others, and for everyone to have the vaccines when offered them. I take care of my own protection by being double masked when I go out, frequently changing disposable gloves, and washing or sanitising my hands thoroughly, and by me trying to keep at least a one metre distance between me and others - which of course proves to be nigh on impossible because of other peoples behaviours. I am extremely glad that my Grandchildren, and most other children can go to school again - they should probably never have been stopped. I am happy that teenagers and young adults can go to their nightclubs again, I am pleased that anyone who wants to can go to the pub or restaurants. I am ecstatic that theatres can put on plays, shows, operas, ballets etc again. I hope that while the scientists still think it is important, that people have to either have to have Covid passports to get into crowded venues, or show negative Coronovirus tests - surely that isn't to much to ask 'worried'?

Oh, and by the way, I have never felt bitter towards anyone about the Virus, except the Chinese Government. But I do think that the OP's father is being both selfish and ignorant, and I thank the OP for starting this thread, and apologise to her for some of our personalities turning it into more of an argument, than a discussion about her DDad.