Page 13 | 15 yr old doesn't want the vaccine.

legohurts16 · 2021-12-31T22:40:52+00:00

My 15 yr old DD does not want the covid vaccine. She doesn't think the benefits outweigh the risks. She is very mature and has read up on the subject and is adamant that at the moment she doesn't want it. Her reasons are that it was - a rushed vaccine with little testing- the illness is so mild in children and teens that she doesn't think it is necessary. Me and my DH really want her to have it but I suppose ultimately it is her decision. Her 13 yr old brother and all her cousins have been vaccinated and in her friendship group it is literally half and half. She says at the moment she isn't planning on going to Spain or the US so it isn't necessary. My hubby is adamant she has to have it and has booked her an appointment for Monday and will take her kicking and screaming if he has too. Funnily enough at the start of the pandemic he was the one who said there would be no way he would vaccinate our children against a mild illness but now omricon is here he is worried for her. Should she be forced if we feel it is right or should she be free to make her own choice?

liveforsummer · 01/01/2022 19:46

The NHS guidance is just that - guidance. Some decide the risk is less to have it and some decide it's less not to. Certain for all the asymptomatic unvaccinated dc who have sailed through covid their choice was likely the right one. Fwiw the mum of DD's best friend is a hospital consultant and neither of her teens are vaccinated.

Beadebaser · 01/01/2022 19:48

@glimpsing

We’ll post age 16, parental consent isn’t part of medical decision making - of course she’ll be making her own decisions then!

Beadebaser · 01/01/2022 19:51

@liveforsummer the NHS guidance is the best informed, consensus of medical opinion. In the mush of misinformation, hearsay and confusion - it is the one thing that - although not perfect - is the best we’ve got.

glimpsing · 01/01/2022 19:51

We’ll post age 16, parental consent isn’t part of medical decision making - of course she’ll be making her own decisions then!

Will you find that difficult, if she disagrees with you, do you think?

XenoBitch · 01/01/2022 19:52

[quote Beadebaser]@glimpsing

We’ll post age 16, parental consent isn’t part of medical decision making - of course she’ll be making her own decisions then![/quote]
People below 16 can also make medical decisions. You keep being told this, and some how keep resisting the fact that it is a real thing.

Curiousmouse · 01/01/2022 19:52

The tests WERE NOT RUSHED. All the stages have taken place properly, and with lots of people, more than often is the case. There was less waiting around for others to make decisions between stages. Less time was needed to be spent chasing finance. There have now been far more than enough people who have had them. Finally some of the refusers will go on to accept other medications which are similar, or which are not similar but have been tested in fewer people.

BertieQueen · 01/01/2022 19:53

[quote Beadebaser]@BertieQueen so what is their reason? Because there is no medical guidance that says the vaccine is more risky than Covid.[/quote]
He has made his choice and read all the guidance you keep pushing.

We have seen both sides, we have lost family to covid and also seen reactions to the vaccine.

Guidance is advice/information provided it doesn’t mean people shouldn’t make their own decisions.

Cas112 · 01/01/2022 19:54

He can't drag her there kicking and screaming. It's her body she should be able to have a choice

chickendoodoo · 01/01/2022 19:55

If I was married to your DH and he suggested forcing my 15 year old daughter against her will I'd have thrown him out. She has a say over her body and to force her would absolutely disintegrate all of the trust she has in you. Why is this a big deal? I'm not vaccinated and neither is my 12 year old. It is an individual choice. We are blessed to live in a country where we have choices and rights. You need to respect her decision. I'm shocked you're even contemplating this.

Beadebaser · 01/01/2022 19:56

@glimpsing no I won’t!
And @XenoBitch
I linked the NHS consent thingy earlier. Parental consent IS still part of consent until age 16.
After that I’ve done my job!

glimpsing · 01/01/2022 19:58

@Curiousmouse, perhaps they are making decisions based on individual requirements and preferences? Empirical data is not the only thing to consideration when making medical decisions. Sometimes there are recommendations within the NHS which are not based on empirical data for which the information is freely available (I came across this during cancer treatment).

Beadebaser · 01/01/2022 19:58

@BertieQueen

Is there a specific reason though?

XenoBitch · 01/01/2022 19:58

[quote Beadebaser]@glimpsing no I won’t!
And @XenoBitch
I linked the NHS consent thingy earlier. Parental consent IS still part of consent until age 16.
After that I’ve done my job![/quote]
From the NHS site....

'If a young person refuses treatment, which may lead to their death or a severe permanent injury, their decision can be overruled by the Court of Protection.'

A vaccine wont come under that.

Thievesoil · 01/01/2022 20:46

curious how do you feel about this in relation to the “quiet” withdrawal of AZ though? I appreciated that wasn’t “rushed” but the subsequent clotting issues spooked me. What do we not know about mRNA? I have to say the denial of issues relating to menstruation has also spooked me. Tests might not have been rushed but it seems to me that info is still being amassed. Whilst I’m happy the risk outweighs the benefit for the vulnerable, I will not be getting this for the DCs

5zeds · 01/01/2022 20:53

@Totallydefeated Well I guess because you suggested I was very anxious about Covid and it was an unusual conclusion to jump to, especially given vaccinate and social distance is a very mainstream view and suggested by The WHO.

Thievesoil · 01/01/2022 20:54

Sorry - I meant the benefits outweigh the risks!

downbythewoods · 01/01/2022 21:18

I am not anti vax (reluctantly vaccinated myself) but forcing someone to be vaccinated rings massive alarm bells. Her reasoning is sound. And for those who yak on about it not being rushed, maybe the mechanics weren't, but nothing can replace time when it comes to side effects/ effectiveness etc. Why do you think they quietly stepped away from the AZ vaccine? Why they didn't predict the affect it would have on women's cycles etc. Clotting? Heart problems? Why they didn't know how effective it would be? Because they didn't have time before mass roll out.

ollyollyoxenfree · 01/01/2022 21:18

@Thievesoil

curious how do you feel about this in relation to the “quiet” withdrawal of AZ though? I appreciated that wasn’t “rushed” but the subsequent clotting issues spooked me. What do we not know about mRNA? I have to say the denial of issues relating to menstruation has also spooked me. Tests might not have been rushed but it seems to me that info is still being amassed. Whilst I’m happy the risk outweighs the benefit for the vulnerable, I will not be getting this for the DCs

It hasn't been withdrawn, quietly or otherwise. As we know more about side effects and how they distribute through different demographics, different vaccines are prioritised for different groups.

I have to say the denial of issues relating to menstruation has also spooked me
Keep seeing this being posted, keep replying that I'm not sure who you think it's being denied by. This is a very active area of research, as is that of the impact of coronavirus infection itself on the menstrual cycle.

thing47 · 01/01/2022 21:19

@Thievesoil

curious how do you feel about this in relation to the “quiet” withdrawal of AZ though? I appreciated that wasn’t “rushed” but the subsequent clotting issues spooked me. What do we not know about mRNA? I have to say the denial of issues relating to menstruation has also spooked me. Tests might not have been rushed but it seems to me that info is still being amassed. Whilst I’m happy the risk outweighs the benefit for the vulnerable, I will not be getting this for the DCs

Without getting into the general argument here, can I just address the mRNA issue – laboratories all over the world have been assessing mRNA vaccines for many, many years, for various different viruses. DD2 was working on mRNA sequencing during her recent 'control of infectious diseases' Masters.

It really isn't some big bad unknown tech as some have tried to claim. As a point of fact, the newly developed malaria vaccine for which there are high hopes is based on mRNA technology.

DeckTheHallsWithGin · 01/01/2022 21:21

Her choice as long as she fully understands how many vulnerable people she is putting at risk due to her own selfishness.

ollyollyoxenfree · 01/01/2022 21:22

@downbythewoods

I am not anti vax (reluctantly vaccinated myself) but forcing someone to be vaccinated rings massive alarm bells. Her reasoning is sound. And for those who yak on about it not being rushed, maybe the mechanics weren't, but nothing can replace time when it comes to side effects/ effectiveness etc. Why do you think they quietly stepped away from the AZ vaccine? Why they didn't predict the affect it would have on women's cycles etc. Clotting? Heart problems? Why they didn't know how effective it would be? Because they didn't have time before mass roll out.

Regarding the reasoning by the OPs daughter, it is not sound, it is based on misinformation. As I've said, no one should be vaccinated if they don't want to be, but it should be an informed decision.

When you roll out any intervention to billions of people in a short time frame, you will pick up the very rare side effects that are not able to be detected in trials.

Efficacy was calculated and reported in the original papers as per standard protocols. All manscripts including commentary regarding how this a) would wane over time, b) would be reduced by genetic drift/new emergent variants and c) would require booster doses. It's the fault of the media/government tbh, who do not report research with these kind of nuances and caveats.

Totallydefeated · 01/01/2022 21:36

[quote 5zeds]@Totallydefeated Well I guess because you suggested I was very anxious about Covid and it was an unusual conclusion to jump to, especially given vaccinate and social distance is a very mainstream view and suggested by The WHO.[/quote]
Yes, I thought it was a knee-jerk, tit-for-tat response you gave.

I don’t have strong opinions on whether individuals on threads get vaccinated or not, it’s a matter for each person as far as I’m concerned. I’m optimistic we’re heading l in the right direction, we have a high level of vaccinated people in this country and the virus appears to be weakening, as I’ve been hoping it would.

You come over as anxious to me, not because you are pushing the recommendation for vaccination and social distancing, which as you rightly say, is mainstream, official advice and sensible for most people.

Its the emotion in your responses that give that impression, the strength and fixity with which the opinion is held, rather than the opinion itself. The vehemence and hyperbole and level of fear you are displaying about the decisions of others, seem OTT and based in fear. They’re certainly a level above most responses, with one or two exceptions.

Branleuse · 01/01/2022 21:37

@Curiousmouse

The tests WERE NOT RUSHED. All the stages have taken place properly, and with lots of people, more than often is the case. There was less waiting around for others to make decisions between stages. Less time was needed to be spent chasing finance. There have now been far more than enough people who have had them. Finally some of the refusers will go on to accept other medications which are similar, or which are not similar but have been tested in fewer people.

Exactly

Comefromaway · 01/01/2022 21:57

[quote Beadebaser]@XenoBitch

If they make that decision due to misinformation - I would say they lack Gillick competence.[/quote]
The law would disagree with you.

Sarahschild · 01/01/2022 21:58

[quote 5zeds]**@Sarahschild* Glad you're not my mum!*
@Blubells Glad you're not my mum!

While this is obviously charming, I’m pretty sure I’m not.
Heckling someone because they believe in supporting children to care for the vulnerable in their communities isn’t at all admirable. I hope you and yours don’t regret your attitudes and not too many people are hurt by them.

Can I just reiterate that if you or your children choose not to vaccinate could you make positive efforts to avoid mixing particularly with the vulnerable? All the hands, face, space, ventilation and avoiding crowds is doubly important if you are not vaccinated.[/quote]
Are you for real? Oh….. is that what you do? I had no idea…..