Pubs in our area have decided to shut at 10pm tonight

[OriginalM]

Pubs in our area have decided to close at 10pm tonight due to the high rates of covid and staff shortages.
Any other areas doing the same?
How many other businesses will have to collectively close before Boris /Rishi steps in ?

Imaging judging people for making personal risk assessments and deciding they're happy to go out. I'd hate to be home all the time worrying about Covid, sounds incredibly dull to me.

Excluding CEV of course.

@Tealightsandd

Oh dear for you if you get Long Covid then.Still one night out is worth potentially years of being a hermit.... without a livelihood, because of being too unwell to work.

Oh dear for you that you are so petrified of a virus that would be very unlikely to cause anything more than a cold if you're vaxxed and not CEV that you will hide away from normal life.

@Xmasiscancelledagain

I'm of the belief that Covid is a very convenient get out clause for staff who don't want to work over the festive period. Its amazing how many people have Covid and a guaranteed 10 days off over Christmas when their annual leave request was cancelled. . Where DH works, they are being asked to work tomorrow and Sunday when they wouldn't usually and its amazing how many fit and healthy people have suddenly developed Covid in the last 24 hours.

So the management and most of the staff at my sons works are all faking it? I can assure you my son is very poorly at the moment with the bloody thing.

treeflowercat Oh dear for you that you are so petrified of a virus that would be very unlikely to cause anything more than a cold if you're vaxxed and not CEV that you will hide away from normal life.

Misinformation. Firstly there is increasing evidence that susceptibility to serious illness from Covid is genetic which is why people they judged vulnerable and instructed to shield at the start of the pandemic have turned out to have the same chance of mild disease as everyone else. You cannot know unless you have had your genome sequenced for the implicated genes whether you are vulnerable to serious disease and /or long Covid.

Secondly our local hospital has declared a major incident because 1in 15 people have Covid and that translates into lots of people needing to be hospitalised. That has very real implications for the treatment that we will receive for other health issues which might become life changing as a result.

Thirdly our local economy is to a large extent in shutdown with whole train lines not running and pubs and restaurants either not open at all over the Christmas period or reducing their hours. Our local independent businesses are really suffering and it comes on top of already struggling with supply chain and staffing issues caused by Brexit. The chains will withstand it but we will lose more independent businesses (some had already given up)

This is a highly infectious virus with serious implications for society, it is not just a cold or flu, however much you wish it so.

@Thewiseoneincognito

Anyone going out tonight needs their heads checking.

Seriously, who wants to usher in 2022 with Covid?

Check my head then, cos I was out and had a great time. Danced all night on a packed dance floor and even, gasp, held strangers hands to do auld lang syne. Oh, and the place was rammed to the gills with people well over 60. Number of fucks given about covid 0.

Good on you Aposter sounds great

We had a day party but at midnight the street went crazy with fireworks, much more than previous years

It was really something to see

Check my head then, cos I was out and had a great time. Danced all night on a packed dance floor and even, gasp, held strangers hands to do auld lang syne. Oh, and the place was rammed to the gills with people well over 60. Number of fucks given about covid 0

Me too, it was great! My only regret is the shots as I can hardly move my head right now 😆

It's interesting to read the comments from the usual people who pretend they're caring and kind and just want to stay at home to keep people "safe". Calling people idiots, trying to frighten them with "long covid". How kind they are.

@DynamiteFilledRadish

It's interesting to read the comments from the usual people who pretend they're caring and kind and just want to stay at home to keep people "safe". Calling people idiots, trying to frighten them with "long covid". How kind they are.

Yep. They think it's their way or no way. What a selfish attitude.

[quote treeflowercat]@Tealightsandd

Oh dear for you if you get Long Covid then.Still one night out is worth potentially years of being a hermit.... without a livelihood, because of being too unwell to work.

Oh dear for you that you are so petrified of a virus that would be very unlikely to cause anything more than a cold if you're vaxxed and not CEV that you will hide away from normal life.[/quote]
Don't know which virus you're referring to? I'm posting about SARS-COV-2. It might be more appropriate to start a new thread on another board about your cold virus. Unless you have access to some very new information not yet seen by the chief medical officer, chief scientific officer, the British Medical Association, and well the majority of science and medical experts worldwide including the WHO? You must have the gift. I presume, given only a psychic could possibly know for sure about the long term effects of a new disease that is likely lab escaped (and possibly human modified - and therefore not natural).

Btw where did I say I was 'hiding'?
Some of us care about others. Makes sense really because, morals aside, unless you live off grid, knock on effects impact on us all (super rich excepted).

Many of those at highest risk of serious illness and death are classed as CV (not CEV) by the UK government. That classification doesn't change the fact that their underlying conditions (including cardiovascular, diabetes, obesity) have some of the highest risks of Covid death. Globally.

The reason the UK government hasn't included them in the CEV group is because the sheer numbers - including many cannon fodder essential workers.

Even just the official CEV group alone is a significant minority. Millions.

And deny and dismiss all you like. It won't change the reality that Long Covid (which includes potential organ damage) is a risk to everybody...but particularly, studies indicate, women. Which is 50% of the population.

Yep. They think it's their way or no way.

Nah. They just listen to the science. Well that and basic common sense. Add in the lessons of very recent past. The deja vu of repeatedly acting too late.

Oh - and yeh, not wanting to look the other way whilst 100s a day are needlessly killed.

But don't worry. Us Follow the Science Proactive Mitigations group, we're a pragmatic lot.

Just because we know what is the right thing to do (morally and practically), doesn't mean we have any expectations.

I mean, this country has just seen Tony Blair get a knighthood. A war criminal, who profiteered to the tune of millions from the public health housing emergency that he so lovingly nurtured. A man whose fetishisation of youth has led us to today's eugenics lite attitudes towards the elderly and young but disabled. Blair's war on the disabled has a terrible legacy.

@Tealightsandd

Yep. They think it's their way or no way.

Nah. They just listen to the science. Well that and basic common sense. Add in the lessons of very recent past. The deja vu of repeatedly acting too late.

Oh - and yeh, not wanting to look the other way whilst 100s a day are needlessly killed.

That's fine. Do what you want to do. But you have no right to chastise others for living their lives the way they want to.

I have every right in an apparently free society to give my view and/or condemn behaviour which impacts on others.

People can't demand freedom to do whatever they want consequences be damned but deny others the freedom to comment on those actions.

Do you chastise drink drivers for living their lives the way they want to?

That said, if we're making requests about what not to say. Perhaps your side might like to stop chastising people for taking mitigation measures that will allow other people to live their lives (rather than die).

As for 'freedom'. We do not live in a free society where people are able to live their lives the way they want to - even when it's something that does not impact on others. Eg. Assisted suicide.

Smokers are increasingly denied the freedom to live life the way they want to. Despite smoking, unlike Covid, giving the smoker pleasure - and being a net gain to the national economy.

Drugs? People who prefer opium to alcohol aren't allowed to live their life the way they want to.

Many many people are not allowed to live their lives the way they want to in this (and every) society.

@Tealightsandd

I have every right in an apparently free society to give my view and/or condemn behaviour which impacts on others.

People can't demand freedom to do whatever they want consequences be damned but deny others the freedom to comment on those actions.

Do you chastise drink drivers for living their lives the way they want to?

That said, if we're making requests about what not to say. Perhaps your side might like to stop chastising people for taking mitigation measures that will allow other people to live their lives (rather than die).

As for 'freedom'. We do not live in a free society where people are able to live their lives the way they want to - even when it's something that does not impact on others. Eg. Assisted suicide.

Smokers are increasingly denied the freedom to live life the way they want to. Despite smoking, unlike Covid, giving the smoker pleasure - and being a net gain to the national economy.

Drugs? People who prefer opium to alcohol aren't allowed to live their life the way they want to.

Many many people are not allowed to live their lives the way they want to in this (and every) society.

I'm not chastising anyone for taking mitigations. As I said, you do what you like.

The comparisons to drink driving are ridiculous because first of all drink driving is illegal. Going on a night out is not illegal.

Secondly, choosing to drink drive is something which you have complete control over. A virus is airborne. You might not know you have it. The only way to stop this virus would be for every single person in the world to stay at home for 2 weeks. Not possible.

You say you're pragmatic, but you don't seem very pragmatic about death and that it happens to all of us whether we like it or not.

@Tealightsandd

I have every right in an apparently free society to give my view and/or condemn behaviour which impacts on others.

People can't demand freedom to do whatever they want consequences be damned but deny others the freedom to comment on those actions.

Do you chastise drink drivers for living their lives the way they want to?

That said, if we're making requests about what not to say. Perhaps your side might like to stop chastising people for taking mitigation measures that will allow other people to live their lives (rather than die).

As for 'freedom'. We do not live in a free society where people are able to live their lives the way they want to - even when it's something that does not impact on others. Eg. Assisted suicide.

Smokers are increasingly denied the freedom to live life the way they want to. Despite smoking, unlike Covid, giving the smoker pleasure - and being a net gain to the national economy.

Drugs? People who prefer opium to alcohol aren't allowed to live their life the way they want to.

Many many people are not allowed to live their lives the way they want to in this (and every) society.

Assisted suicide does have an impact on others you are asking HCP to break their oath to do no harm. It's not about just giving the drugs to do it, someone has to prescribe and administer them which is going to have a lasting impact. That's before the fact that suicide is still illegal in this country as it is a sin!

Smokers are free to enjoy their habit just not in certain venues where the majority of the population do not want it to take place. No opinion polls have been conducted for whether the general public want restrictions unlike the smoking ban which had numerous.

We lived in a very free society until 21 months ago.

You say you're pragmatic, but you don't seem very pragmatic about death and that it happens to all of us whether we like it or not.

I speak of mitigations As advised by the experts. Masks (genuinely exempt excepted), vaccine passes, ventilation (including HEPA filters).

We can't completely stop car crash deaths but we take mitigations to reduce, i.e. seat belts.

Just as with drink driving, we can control whether or not to take mitigations.

Re death. You obviously haven't read many of my posts. I'm very pragmatic about it. Law's changed now to opt out, but I've had a donor card for years (also looked into donating my body and/or brain to medical science). I'm a strong advocate for legalising both assisted suicide and euthanasia. I belong to campaign group, Dignity in Dying. I have an advance directive but that's for emergency unplanned end of life. Any notice, and I'm off to Digitas when my time comes. That's been long planned.

None of that means it's ok to stand back and fail to take mitigations against letting the bodies pile up.

And again. Denial won't make it go away. Death is not the only (or necessarily worst) outcome. There's the impact on society of mass staff sickness. But also, Long Covid is a very real issue for significant minority.

That's before the fact that suicide is still illegal in this country as it is a sin!

Suicide has been legal in the UK for about 50 years.

Just got back from a great lunch in a packed pub - even got chatting to the next table. Everywhere super busy and it was great to see. People out just enjoying themselves.

Someone mentioned Tony Blair getting a knighthood? I don't approve either but I also don't approve of Whitty getting one, the way he and others have colluded in weaponising fear and manipulating figures disgusts me as much a Blairs WMD's.

@Tealightsandd

You say you're pragmatic, but you don't seem very pragmatic about death and that it happens to all of us whether we like it or not.

I speak of mitigations As advised by the experts. Masks (genuinely exempt excepted), vaccine passes, ventilation (including HEPA filters).

We can't completely stop car crash deaths but we take mitigations to reduce, i.e. seat belts.

Just as with drink driving, we can control whether or not to take mitigations.

Re death. You obviously haven't read many of my posts. I'm very pragmatic about it. Law's changed now to opt out, but I've had a donor card for years (also looked into donating my body and/or brain to medical science). I'm a strong advocate for legalising both assisted suicide and euthanasia. I belong to campaign group, Dignity in Dying. I have an advance directive but that's for emergency unplanned end of life. Any notice, and I'm off to Digitas when my time comes. That's been long planned.

None of that means it's ok to stand back and fail to take mitigations against letting the bodies pile up.

And again. Denial won't make it go away. Death is not the only (or necessarily worst) outcome. There's the impact on society of mass staff sickness. But also, Long Covid is a very real issue for significant minority.

Except we aren't letting the bodies pile up. Vaccines have vastly protected against that. The people predominantly dying are now very elderly. That's sad, but it's not tragic. We cannot stop every single Covid death. If any mitigations are introduced, it won't be to stop Covid deaths - that has never been the case. Mitigations have ALWAYS been solely to stop the NHS being overwhelmed.

Some of us care about others. Makes sense really because, morals aside, unless you live off grid, knock on effects impact on us all (super rich excepted)

This isn't true. You may be convincing yourself but nobody else is falling for it. You don't care about other people at all. You cheerlead for people who agree with you. You post utter nonsense about long covid, and smoking. You insult. You threaten. You don't care at all. Unless people agree with you.

I went out last night, we picked somewhere we knew would be quieter and it was.

It’s a bar ran by a family member we went too. Like so many hospitality businesses they have been massively struggling to keep their heads above water.

So whilst being concerned about the virus, and picking where we go within our comfort zone, I am also concerned about the future of these businesses, the well-being of the staff and owners, the knock on them struggling has on other businesses.

It’s not a black and white situation at all. Everyone will make their decisions on what they do within their comfort zone.

Mr Johnson and Mr Sunak have little clue about business, and will not step in because some close early or at all because of staff shortages.

The 10pm closure on New Year's Eve, or at least ticketed, has happened for several years where I live.

@DynamiteFilledRadish

Some of us care about others. Makes sense really because, morals aside, unless you live off grid, knock on effects impact on us all (super rich excepted)

This isn't true. You may be convincing yourself but nobody else is falling for it. You don't care about other people at all. You cheerlead for people who agree with you. You post utter nonsense about long covid, and smoking. You insult. You threaten. You don't care at all. Unless people agree with you.

Threaten, insult, don't care? Where please?

Cheerleading however. I'm up for giving it a go. I'm not sure I'd be very good at the lifts but I like pom poms. I'll have a look for some in the sales.

There's sadly nothing nonsense about Long Covid.

Smoking? It's relevant to discussions about freedom, and also given the attitudes displayed by some during this pandemic - in seeing little value in the lives of the elderly. Living longer not so prized afterall. And much of the arguments for Let the Bodies pile up are based on the economy. I've posted the link on different threads in the past. Can't find now but happy to repost tomorrow, if you like? The research demonstrating that smoking is a net gain to the national economy.

Giving an opinion is one thing. (Civilised) debate is good. Unfounded accusations and personal insults, not good - although a clear sign of a lost argument.