Do you think schools will return as normal in January?

[LucozadeGirl]

Just that really.

I don’t think we got the balance right in terms of harm / benefit to children

The harms far exceeded the benefit to them - which was mostly for adults

At least an attempt was made to keep schools open, many advocated ‘blended learning’ which would have been even more devastating in terms of class time

Chicago did it even worse though - 18 months no school for state dc. Division on top as other schools were in.

canary1

I ( and other posters) didn’t imagine this

You really have.

If you all have discovered a yearning need to help vulnerable children that is fantastic - there are tons of volunteering roles you can take up, charities you can set up direct debits to, campaigns you can join etc. You could also retrain as social workers or teachers if you think the work is so vital and you can think very carefully about slating public services and public servants and sneering at those workers when they tell you conditions are really bad, services massively underfunded, working practices unsafe etc.

Fabulous if it translates into action but don't preach to the choir from your armchair.

Chicago did it even worse though - 18 months no school for state dc. Division on top as other schools were in.

Shocking behaviour really.

Completely agree social services and police then have their essential roles- but school is essential too. No one, certainly not me, thinks school staff must solve these problems at all!
But removing school especially in the first lockdown, when the effects on children were not known and so more were staying out, etc was catastrophic. That 8:30-3:30 part of many kids’ day is crucial, and is some kids’ safe place. I feel like I shouldn’t have to tell school staff how vital and important their roles are to the young.

@canary1

Just adding that it’s posts like the above from SwallowedAFly that have me believe he/ she is promoting school closure. That’s surely his /her line of thinking regarding school closure when attending school is minimized so much.

I ( and other posters) didn’t imagine this

Honestly this is a massive leap to assume she is promoting school closure.

And just to add I do work on the frontline helping vulnerable children.

I feel like I shouldn’t have to tell school staff how vital and important their roles are to the young

You really shouldn't be no, hence my saying don't preach to the choir. If you genuinely care about vulnerable kids do something. Foster, volunteer, vote for a party that promises to properly fund education and social services and cahms etc. Do it ongoingly rather than just piping up when it's convenient to your argument.

Don't insult the people who do actually devote a large part of their lives to looking out for these kids with wild accusations of not caring about them.

If you can't see how despicable using these kids as a lever in an argument is then I give up. It's sickening the way people have done this this year. If someone suggested prioritising vulnerable kids being in school learning in person safely whilst kids of parents working from home learnt from home the concern would quickly disappear.

What do you do Canary?

@canary1

Just adding that it’s posts like the above from SwallowedAFly that have me believe he/ she is promoting school closure. That’s surely his /her line of thinking regarding school closure when attending school is minimized so much.

I ( and other posters) didn’t imagine this

There's nothing that fly has said that suggests this

Does she he/her everyone or just me?

People taking it on themselves to impose qualifying criteria in discussions like these are generally doing so to try and delegitimise something they find inconvenient to have said. Treat it for what it is, especially when so much of it comes from the poster's imagination: there's really no need to even acknowledge someone who berates and offers unasked for advice based on their own assumptions. I spent years in an organisation fighting cuts and supporting some of the most vulnerable in society before having to leave due to care reasons, amongst other involvement in that sector. And even if I hadn't, I'd still be 100% correct that school closures harm vulnerable children and are a terrible thing. The more this is said, the better.

Some people are certainly using vulnerable kids as an argument against school closures when they haven't shown any concern about vulnerable kids since the last time they thought they could use them to argue against school closures.

If you haven't noticed that then lucky you. But when you think about it, it's grim, isn't it?

VikingOnTheFridge

And even if I hadn't, I'd still be 100% correct that school closures harm vulnerable children and are a terrible thing. The more this is said, the better.

But saying it without supporting ways that helps it happen its just pointless.

As is posters making stuff up about teachers wanting schools to close because they are saying that some mitigating measures are required.

The situation with children in bad homes is upsetting. Made unbelievably worse by lockdowns and being cut off from any escape, or help.

Lockdowns also exacerbated bad situations as anyone can imagine. Stress / isolation / money concerns / no break. Plus education loss, life chances ruined.

All children were impacted though, and it was the age group as a whole that concerned me, and I did write to MP a few times to ask for open schools.

I’d try to do more if it happened again.

I’m talking about all dc in posts as think they were all hit harder than they should have been

What nasty comments there are from some people. Really cruel. Very upset by noblegiraffes real nastiness.

I’m far from saying schools are the ‘ panacea of all society’s ills’.
I work in children’s services, I can’t specify more.I do spend my life devoted to vulnerable children, SwallowedAFly.

My only point is that schools should be open. I saw the fallout in kids mental health and well-being.

I absolutely try to increase and improve services for such kids.

I believe schools need to remain open. If you believe this too, then why are you so nasty to me? Calling me or anyone saying this someone who ‘ wheels out’ vulnerable children and is ‘an obnoxious piece of shut’ is really horrible.
I won’t be returning to this thread. I certainly hope schools are open for the sake of the kids and that’s all I have to say on the matter.

@canary1

What nasty comments there are from some people. Really cruel. Very upset by noblegiraffes real nastiness.

I’m far from saying schools are the ‘ panacea of all society’s ills’.
I work in children’s services, I can’t specify more.I do spend my life devoted to vulnerable children, SwallowedAFly.

My only point is that schools should be open. I saw the fallout in kids mental health and well-being.

I absolutely try to increase and improve services for such kids.

I believe schools need to remain open. If you believe this too, then why are you so nasty to me? Calling me or anyone saying this someone who ‘ wheels out’ vulnerable children and is ‘an obnoxious piece of shut’ is really horrible.
I won’t be returning to this thread. I certainly hope schools are open for the sake of the kids and that’s all I have to say on the matter.

Canary

It’s rotten don’t take any notice. I’m sure you do loads.

@FrippEnos

VikingOnTheFridge

And even if I hadn't, I'd still be 100% correct that school closures harm vulnerable children and are a terrible thing. The more this is said, the better.

But saying it without supporting ways that helps it happen its just pointless.

As is posters making stuff up about teachers wanting schools to close because they are saying that some mitigating measures are required.

It depends what you mean by pointless. I'm in support of better ventilation etc for schools and have long been of the view that austerity and stripping to the bone meant the UK entered the pandemic basically in the shitter already.

It's also the case that even in the context of the big mess we're in, widespread school closures are still a bad thing for children as a cohort. Harm comes from school closures even when we aren't doing anything like a good enough job in schools. This merits saying because it's where we are now. The reality is that widespread school closures as a policy aren't possible without fairly substantial support or at least buy in from the population.

Thanks MarshBrady. I’m almost in tears at how nasty those posts were.

(I won’t be replying to anyone else or returning here)

Very upset by noblegiraffes real nastiness.

Which bit of it was aimed at you? Because I certainly wasn't writing about anyone in particular. If you don't wheel out vulnerable kids merely to make an argument on the internet, then the obnoxious shit bit doesn't apply to you, does it? And I'm sure that you would agree that wheeling out vulnerable kids just to make an argument on the internet when you don't really care about them at all is obnoxiously shitty, isn't it?

Using children who are vunerable to abuse as a reason to berate people calling for safer schools (ie not closures but mitigations against school clossures) is crazy. Schools will close either because the situations becomes do dire they government closes them in which case there will be key worker and vunerable provision or the close randomly when staff8ng hits unsafe areas which the government will blame the schools for and no child key worker or vunerable will have provision until they open again.

Mumsnet is odd sometimes parent says they are worried about CEV child they get no child could die of covid stop being a scaredycat and damaging your childs mental health, usually followed with well if they are vunerable never leave you home or interact with people.
Its like health vuneravle children are a sub species that can be hidden away and forgotton about whereas vunerabke from abuse is this years tokenism. Lets use the CEV child deaths concept against abuse arguement 'how many children have actually died as a direct result of abuse' some of them could have died because of something else, everyone dies its part of life'
Sounds awful and no way reflects my view point but gets said apout health vunerable all the time.

But mostly after covid most of those berating others for wanting some safety measures in schools to protect everyone will disapear and not give 2 hoots about vunerable kids again

VikingOnTheFridge

The reality is that widespread school closures as a policy aren't possible without fairly substantial support or at least buy in from the population.

Where on here is anybody on here saying anything different?

The point that is being made over and over again is that if there is no staff there is no school.

It is a very simple premise, yet posters seem to be being wilfully obtuse about the fact and saying that teachers should do more.

@noblegiraffe

Very upset by noblegiraffes real nastiness.

Which bit of it was aimed at you? Because I certainly wasn't writing about anyone in particular. If you don't wheel out vulnerable kids merely to make an argument on the internet, then the obnoxious shit bit doesn't apply to you, does it? And I'm sure that you would agree that wheeling out vulnerable kids just to make an argument on the internet when you don't really care about them at all is obnoxiously shitty, isn't it?

Shame on you noblegiraffe. What a terrible way to behave and then back pedalling to get out of it.

You really need to stop and think before you post such horrible comments in future.

@FrippEnos

VikingOnTheFridge

The reality is that widespread school closures as a policy aren't possible without fairly substantial support or at least buy in from the population.

Where on here is anybody on here saying anything different?

The point that is being made over and over again is that if there is no staff there is no school.

It is a very simple premise, yet posters seem to be being wilfully obtuse about the fact and saying that teachers should do more.

Actually, rather more points than that are being made. I think some ad hoc closures due to staffing shortages were baked in from the moment Omicron arrived, as it happens, but there is clearly more being talked about here. We're seeing attempts to police who can speak on this subject, which is bullshit. One can disagree with posters whilst also recognising this for what it is.