Do you think schools will return as normal in January?

[LucozadeGirl]

Just that really.

It was far worse when we had the interruption of isolation to keep cases lower

Delta happened pretty quickly in school and dc had ten days off at the time and that was it

@Mistressiggi

Scenario 1: teacher also gets Covid and no online teaching is done for obvious reasons. Teacher isn't seriously ill but does seem to have continuing debilitating symptoms that involve an extended time off work and eventually a request to work part time. ^ hypothetical, but equally possible.

Unfortunately, the teacher being off in this way is similarly likely in scenario 2 also! However, having had vaccines and been boosted, and given omicrons reduced virulence, this isn't a likely outcome.

@treeflowercat you can re catch all the covid variants though, so either way that will happen. Everyone having covid in Jan will cause a immense strain on the nhs and catching it again is very much possible 🤦🏼‍♀️

Scenario 1: School accepts reality of Omicron and continues largely as normal.

Schools already have accepted and last term all did their very best to try to carry on as normally as possible at great expense (to cost, MH and everything else)

Most of class get infected in early January. Class is sent home and online learning occurs for 2-3 weeks. This sounds like Primary school based to me. Secondary Schools? SEND schools? PRUs? FE?

Scenario 2 has already been happening since September in most Secondary schools and probably in other places but I have no experience of those so wouldn’t want to speculate.

I think a previous poster hit the nail on the head earlier-disruption is inevitable and most people should expect at least some. What that disruption will look like is anyone’s guess.

They'll reopen as usual with the government giving the same line that they are "absolutely safe" with no additional funding for PPE, supply teachers, resources that would allow for an education without disruption for our children. But no, have a few CO2 monitors and best of luck to you. Oh, and best be on the lookout for Ofsted in the New Year.

[quote treeflowercat]@ChloeDecker

To quote from your earlier post...

* "whilst the virus rips through everyone: for the inevitable staff absence, pupils at home missing school who catch it and the long term issues of mental health or complications from the virus?*"

You're clearly arguing here for measures to stop Covid infection in schools and prevent pupils and teachers from catching it, not to slow Covid infection. That's why I said you appear to have a "zero-Covid" mindset, even if you don't admit it or realise you do.[/quote]
Can’t see anywhere where I have said to stop Covid completely so if you have assumed that from that post, that’s on you not me.

I am however, being realistic that currently, it will be inevitable to have staff absence, pupils at home missing school and long term implications. If posters think that opening schools and carrying on as normal won’t result in the above, or hope that it won’t, I think they may be in for a shock.

I know because I’ve already just gone through a long term experiencing exactly all those in the list and more and fully expect another one, although will less in the budget to help.

Forsomechildren - school is the safest place for them to be in the majority of circumstances

Forsomechildren - school is one of the biggest drivers of their mental health problems, and they did better with remote learning

Forsomechildren - school is normally fine, but feels scary when they can't see Covid safety measures because they are afraid of Covid (maybe have CEV family members)

This @chocolateisavegetable

Higher viral load = more severe disease. This has been proved several times.

It's not actually that proven:

bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12879-021-06376-1

Well technically it's viral dose that is important - viral inoculum, or the initial dose of virus that a patient takes in.

That's separate from patients' subsequent viral load, the level of replicating virus as measured by copies per mL. Which is what that paper is referring to.

But in the media people use viral load to mean viral dose, seemingly, so that's what I used.

I teach secondary and think we will be back in. To be honest, although I obviously want staff and pupils to be as safe as possible, pupils really need to be in if it can be done. My Y11s and 13s have had so much disruption and online learning isn't a patch on what we can do in the classroom with them.

My lovely Y7 group who have SEND needs would struggle hugely with online learning. Some are unable to read/write so we rely on verbal interactions and practical activities.

My own son is in Y3 and loves school. He went in during last year's lockdown as I was working in school. He missed his friends who weren't there though - he gets a lot out of the social side with him being an only child.

So, overall, I really want us all to be in school, however, last term was horrendous for staff absences and I am expecting the same this term. We really struggled to get supply staff in and we basically rely on the good will of the staff in the building to cover lessons. I had a Y13 and Y12 group at the same time one day, doing two very different parts of the spec -was bloody run ragged trying to support them all!

Friends teach secondary by the end of term 19 teachers off school years sent home although the majority were already off with covid. She's hoping as an English teacher that Omicron wiped them out last term so they can go back on the 10th

I'm in Wales and my DCs' schools are scheduled to reopen on Fri 7th.
But cases being what they are atm (almost 10,000 a day for a population of about 3m) I'm waiting for Mark Drakeford's announcement about a move to online teaching again until daily case numbers go down.

I can see staff shortages being an issue due to high Covid rates.

My kids secondary school does live lessons for those homeschooling due to isolation;it'll be far easier for one subject teacher to deliver a live lesson to say 3 classes at a time in that particular subject than the school trying to find cover for 2 teachers that are Covid positive.

I can see certain schools shutting to students (with the exception of vulnerable students) to ensure the kids are still getting lessons even if it's online.

Yes, I'd have thought so.

Secondaries may have a slightly staggered start to allow for testing, but not all. Masks may be in some schools, etc. depending on local,guidelines from schools and LEAs.

Primary will be as normal, well as they were before the holidays. So some may have some local precautions such as year group bubbles, open windows, etc.

Some schools may have partial closures due to staff absences. Some may have increased precautionary measures, advised by PHE (or whatever it's called now) if class/school numbers are high.

It’s upsetting and entirely incorrect to state that those raising points about vulnerable children don’t ‘give a shit’ as one charming poster said.

You are all very wrong.

It’s more of a concern that you are disagreeing that school can be a safe place for some children. You also seem determined to promote a mantra that schools should just be shut? It that what you’d like, and until when?

It’s absurd.

Yes.

I haven't seen a single teacher say they want schools shut. Yet I see lots of posters pretending, or perhaps genuinely misunderstanding (though I can't see how), that recognising the challenges that will be faced and wanting some mitigations and regard for safety means wanting schools shut.

@Blubells

*Kids who aren’t fed - school problem rather than social services? Kids in violent home - school issue rather than social services? Kids homeless - oh yes - school issue*

Sorry my question is: why does this mean that schools should NOT reopen?

I thought we are discussing whether schools should reopen in January?

The reality is though that schools never fully closed to exactly these children. I would agree though that the role of schools within the areas of safeguarding needs reviewing and social services along with them.

So the point really is that these children more often (but not always) are in school regardless of them being open, as was the case before, along with the endless list of those qualifying as key workers children.

You don't close schools on the basis of one safety element to then place a vulnerable group at risk of harm , there are already teams and processes assigned to them.

Yes I think if there are any restrictions the schools will be the last to close.

Ds was in school throughout as a vulnerable child. He needed school. Social care cannot offer what he needs.

@canary1

It’s upsetting and entirely incorrect to state that those raising points about vulnerable children don’t ‘give a shit’ as one charming poster said.

You are all very wrong.

It’s more of a concern that you are disagreeing that school can be a safe place for some children. You also seem determined to promote a mantra that schools should just be shut? It that what you’d like, and until when?

It’s absurd.

Who has disagreed that school can be a safe place? And who is promoting the mantra of shutting schools?

Come on, if you're going to chuck that (erroneous) accusation around, be accurate and clear as to who it's aimed at.

What is astounding here is that there are people thinking that TEACHERS, of all people, are unaware of the issues some of their pupils are facing. And think it's OK to come on here and start spouting nonsense about us "not caring." You don't know the HALF of it.

SwallowedAfly said that people didn’t care about vulnerable children only that the school was open for their children. He/ She said mentioning vulnerable children was ‘faux virtue’ and ‘does anyone care about vulnerable children outside 08:30 and 3:30 pm

CallMeHendricks and Doubleshotescpresso agreed

They will return but how normal it will be only time will tell. DCs secondary plans to test them all on the first day back, I think it will be interesting to see if many cases are picked up and how many are sent home. Staff isolating will be the biggest issue.

@canary1

SwallowedAfly said that people didn’t care about vulnerable children only that the school was open for their children. He/ She said mentioning vulnerable children was ‘faux virtue’ and ‘does anyone care about vulnerable children outside 08:30 and 3:30 pm

CallMeHendricks and Doubleshotescpresso agreed

Your quote does not show people wanting schools shut and disagreeing that they are safe places for children.

Well saying that people were using the vulnerable children argument indicated that he/ she disagreed that schools are safe places for children.

He/ she seemed to be promoting school closure given he/ she did not want to accept that schools are safe places for kids