Arguments amongst friends over the vaccine

[janicewheeler]

Is anyone else's friendship group starting to see a divide regarding the vaccine ?
I've noticed it between my close friend circle. Out of 10 of us only 4 are vaccinated. The other 6 are dead against it for their own beliefs. Which is fine. But it's really starting to bubble over recently I've noticed. I'm worrying that this is just the beginning for a massive divide in society. Being labelled a sheep and worse than the government for being vaccinated... or that anyone who has had Pfizer will be dead within 3 years.

It's got to the point I don't want to tell anyone I've got my booster booked in!!

@BonnesVacances

I wonder if due to clever algorithms they have been targeted by a similar level of misinformation online due to the kinds of people they followed or liked during Brexit

Good point. I think it's all tapped into the same psyche at any rate.

You've made me think about this now.. the people I know who aren't vaccinated are the ones who lost their shit over the Brexit result.

@nojudgementhere

Oddly my two anti vax friends are both Brexiteers and “All lives matter” types. Hmmm

This is one of the things I most dislike about threads like this. It's that lazy, lumping in together of unvaccinated people as though they are one big homogenous group who all think and behave in the same way. I don't know if this particular thread was created to give people an opportunity to bitch about and belittle anybody unvaccinated but unfortunately that's the kind of posts it is seeming to attract!

Not lumping them together, both my vocal anti vax friends are both anti Europe and pro All Live Matter ! Sometimes I think they are out of the same mould, even though they’ve never met each other.

I have another friend who doesn’t want the vaccine but she votes Green and is very Pro Europe. She just doesn’t laugh at others who differ from her so doesn’t really attract my dislike of her.

Interesting as the only ones I know who are unvaccinated are also the same ones for Brexit vocally.

*That’s all well and good

But it’s the views behind the decision not to vaccinate that are often so…. Unbelievable, that I don’t think just shrugging and smiling would work in long term.

So grateful every single one of my friends and family rejoiced at the news of the vaccination

May I ask for your friends reasonings for not having the vaccine?*

@Excitedforthefuture, I have not asked them as it is none of my business the same way as it is none of my business as to why those who chose to get vaccinated did so. They made their decisions on what was best for them. It makes no difference to me whether they did or did not. I also would never ever ask if someone was vaccinated or not, as again, it is none of my business and to be frank, I could not care less.

Sounds like you are very grateful indeed that all your friends are vaccinated but for myself, I would never make getting a vaccine a stipulation of my friendship. I think that would make me a very shallow, facile and morally bankrupt individual.

It's the loud minority on either side though, isn't it?

For example the minority on either side:

Anti-vaxxers - really sank deep into a rabbit hole of unhinged conspiracy theories regarding vaccines/the pandemic and see anyone who has had the vaccine as either the enemy or government sheep. Either don't think Covid exists or it's just a cold.
*Often seen wondering around central London on a Saturday afternoon with anti-vaxx placards in arm shouting 'freedom' and berating anyone in their field of vision who has a mask on.

Anti-the unvaccinated - still terrified of Covid and want the unvaccinated to be punished/cut off from society/forced to have a vaccine
*often seen screaming abuse at people/easy targets for not wearing a mask in a public place

I think those who fall into either group are unhinged and are not well and I actually feel sorry for them because they aren't coping. I think it's a cry for help in a lot of cases.

Most people are just getting on with their lives as best as they can.

@User135644

It's the loud minority on either side though, isn't it?

For example the minority on either side:

Anti-vaxxers - really sank deep into a rabbit hole of unhinged conspiracy theories regarding vaccines/the pandemic and see anyone who has had the vaccine as either the enemy or government sheep. Either don't think Covid exists or it's just a cold.
*Often seen wondering around central London on a Saturday afternoon with anti-vaxx placards in arm shouting 'freedom' and berating anyone in their field of vision who has a mask on.

Anti-the unvaccinated - still terrified of Covid and want the unvaccinated to be punished/cut off from society/forced to have a vaccine
*often seen screaming abuse at people/easy targets for not wearing a mask in a public place

I think those who fall into either group are unhinged and are not well and I actually feel sorry for them because they aren't coping. I think it's a cry for help in a lot of cases.

Most people are just getting on with their lives as best as they can.

Bang on the money.

Ok, that’s your style of close friendship. Certainly with colleagues, acquaintances and ‘lite’ friends, I would say i oils never probe (although all too often they’re keen on spouting their views backing up why they aren’t getting g vaccinated…. And I store it up and then tell friends/family for a bittersweet chuckle.)

but with close friends, part of the fabric of that relationship is discussing serious shit! Thankfully we are all on the same page about this one (I’d be speechless if any of my close friends or family thought otherwise to be honest as would be suck a curve ball)

@Excitedforthefuture

* Being labelled a sheep and worse than the government for being vaccinated... or that anyone who has had Pfizer will be dead within 3 years. *

Could be a time for a friendship cull OP

I can’t imagine wanting to have a friendship with someone who spouts nonsense like this

As far as I know my friends and family are vaccinated but it's rarely come up in conversation. If any of them haven't had the vaccine they don't feel the need to rant on about sheep and Bill Gates, they don't bring it up.

The unhinged element of the unvaccinated (as I posted above) are clearly unwell and it speaks of a mental health crisis. There's a difference between unvaccinated and anti-vaxx as well.

Many of the more forceful element of the vaccinated are also unwell, even if it's just real anxiety over Covid.

@User135644

Out of interest, if they are the loud minority views of the anti vaccine brigade
What are is the silent majority view of the anti vaccine brigade?

Indeed, 2020in2020

It's not all one way. I'm vaccinated and now boosted and will go in boosting. Was also masking in Feb '20 when we were told it was useless
I have zero regard for the witterings of anti-vaxxers, but also a disdain for the conduct of the pro-vaccine crowd. Flippant, even Darwinist, views about the treatment of un-vaccinated people. Public assembly concerns turning on a dime. Acting as they are teflon-coated, in terms of risk. I just avoid the subject and would not unfriend a person for either view.

At the beginning of the academic year, my child's teacher devised a week's study on the immune system then on the last day asked the 12YOs to put the their hands up if vaccinated. Unethical. Unthinkable in 2019. My 'side' are not covering themselves in glory.

By the way, it's not a given that anti-vax overlaps only with the right. My sibling is far-left, always was skeptical of Big Pharma, but waiting on the Sputnik jab?, of all things. I worry, but don't probe or hector.

@Excitedforthefuture

Ok, that’s your style of close friendship. Certainly with colleagues, acquaintances and ‘lite’ friends, I would say i oils never probe (although all too often they’re keen on spouting their views backing up why they aren’t getting g vaccinated…. And I store it up and then tell friends/family for a bittersweet chuckle.)

but with close friends, part of the fabric of that relationship is discussing serious shit! Thankfully we are all on the same page about this one (I’d be speechless if any of my close friends or family thought otherwise to be honest as would be suck a curve ball)

Keep laughing pal at others pal.....that will serve you well and honestly shows the calibre of your character or lack thereof.

I wonder if any of your exclusive, in the gang, close friends are just telling you what you want to hear...now THAT would be sucking a huge curve ball :)

Brexit all over again over vaccine.

In my personal experience , the anti vaxxers are much more vocal about their opinion and l am very much you do you, l'll do me so don't tend to get in a row over it

It's exactly like Brexit. If you openly proclaim that anyone who supports Brexit or isn't vaccinated is an airheaded fuckwit, or whatever your insult of choice is, the people around you who hold those views probably won't reveal that to you. And then you'll be surprised that so many of them apparently exist, because 'nobody you know' thinks that.

[quote Excitedforthefuture]@User135644

Out of interest, if they are the loud minority views of the anti vaccine brigade
What are is the silent majority view of the anti vaccine brigade?[/quote]
I meant more the minority of the unvaccinated rather than anti-vaxx specifically, as that phrase can tend to carry a connotation of being an activist.

People will be unvaccinated for different reasons. Laziness/just not finding the time is actually a big one. They can't have it for whatever health reason. Fear of needles. Not being bothered because they don't think they need it/aren't at risk (particularly younger people). Had Covid already so don't see the point. Don't think it's been tested properly/too rushed. Fear the side effects or the risk of clots/heart problems that have been associated with them.

The David Icke type crazies aren't the majority.

@GreenWhiteViolet

It's exactly like Brexit. If you openly proclaim that anyone who supports Brexit or isn't vaccinated is an airheaded fuckwit, or whatever your insult of choice is, the people around you who hold those views probably won't reveal that to you. And then you'll be surprised that so many of them apparently exist, because 'nobody you know' thinks that.

I'd say it's like Brexit in the pure tribalism on display which is mostly a minority of people.

Look at that post-referendum period. You had the zealots on Brexit side who wouldn't accept any kind of compromise on pain of death (whether it be May's deal or something else). Then you had the zealots on the Remain side who wouldn't accept any compromise whatsoever (be it May's deal or something else) and wanted a second referendum to overturn the result. Neither were the majority but they made all the noise and discourse.

Boris Johnson got voted in for a massive majority because he promised to Get Brexit Done which was the most effective election slogan in history to a country sick to death of the whole thing. Obviously it wasn't as simple as that but most people just wanted to move on with their lives and it's the same with the vaccines/pandemic.

The damage with Brexit was done when Cameron announced the referendum. The damage with Covid was done when it spread through China and the first time it left China.

@Puremule

Yes, covid deniers and those that think the vaccine is some kind of government poison or that those vaccinated are sheep… are indeed a source of considerable mirth (and frustration and head-scratching) for my friends, family and I

@janicewheeler Tell your pal they’re every bit as much a sheep as you are. People who get vaccinated and anti-Vaxers are all sheep, they just follow different shepherds. All my closest friends are vaccinated and one works for a company who produce the vaccinations. Another friend who isn’t as close and is an outspoken anti-Vaxer has been silenced on Facebook/social media by everyone because she’s forever posting conspiracy stuff, photos of her burning her blue envelope etc. She’s always been closer to others than me but I can’t see her getting invited along to as many events in the future.

@PinkLime

I think it is only a problem when people show extreme opinions - I have a family member who is very anti-vax/face mask and is vocal about it, they think everyone who ‘conforms’ are sheep etc. I also know very pro-vax people who are vocal about ‘selfish’ people who choose not to vaccinate and get angry if someone walks too close to them. They are equally tiresome when they start talking about it imo.

I do not ask my friends if they are vaccinated and none of my friends ask me. We are like minded people who respect each other’s decisions.

Exactly this! The extremists on both sides are boring as fuck. I saw people described as anti vax on here for not having the 3rd booster. That one really baffled me

@nojudgementhere

Oddly my two anti vax friends are both Brexiteers and “All lives matter” types. Hmmm

This is one of the things I most dislike about threads like this. It's that lazy, lumping in together of unvaccinated people as though they are one big homogenous group who all think and behave in the same way. I don't know if this particular thread was created to give people an opportunity to bitch about and belittle anybody unvaccinated but unfortunately that's the kind of posts it is seeming to attract!

It’s the same self-righteous stance that remainders have for Brexiteers — it’s so 2016 right now!!

@User135644 That's a fair point about the tribalism and vocal minorities with extreme views who abhor compromise. I can see that too.

I also agree with the poster who noted the shift in the meaning of 'anti-vax' - I saw one clip of an Australian politician declaring that even if you've had all your vaccinations, if you disagree with vaccine mandates then you're an anti-vaxxer. It was very odd. Yes, he's probably one of those vocal extremists, but still.

[quote Excitedforthefuture]@Puremule

Yes, covid deniers and those that think the vaccine is some kind of government poison or that those vaccinated are sheep… are indeed a source of considerable mirth (and frustration and head-scratching) for my friends, family and I[/quote]
The majority of people who have not got the vaccine are not the type of people you are describing. People have many reasons for not getting it..

No, my friendship group's not seeing a divide but then I think I tend to be attracted to people who are open minded and respectful of different opinions. I would never push my views on them and would hope for the same courtesy back.

Well said.

True friends will respect any decision you take and be supportive.

Same within families - we still love and respect each other regardless if someone chooses to vaccinated or boosted or whatever.

Let's not make this an issue

Yes, covid deniers and those that think the vaccine is some kind of government poison or that those vaccinated are sheep… are indeed a source of considerable mirth (and frustration and head-scratching) for my friends, family and I

What a ridiculous stereotype

I hope you don't really believe all those choosing not to be vaccinated and/or boosted think like this!

Hence me not including other reasons in why they are a source of mirth