Nightingale hubs - help /hinderance/PR exercise

[peridito]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59823652

The eight temporary "Nightingale" units will each house about 100 patients, with building starting this week

Royal Preston hospital in Lancashire
St James' University Hospital in Leeds
Lister Hospital in Stevenage
St George's Hospital in Tooting
William Harvey Hospital in Ashford, Kent
North Bristol Hospital
Solihull Hospital
University Hospitals Birmingham
University Hospitals Leicester

temporary structures will be set up in the grounds of hospitals so staff, equipment and emergency departments are close at hand.

Only those patients who are close to being discharged and need minimal support will be cared for at these facilities.

not much detail ,I wonder how much help they'll be by (presumably) providing a hot zone for recovering Covid patients.

But surely this will be extra pressure for NHS staff figuring out resources to accommodate them ,even if they're just erected and not used .And there will be no extra staff to provide care in them ..so increasing bed space by a 100 but no staff ,nurses ,cleaners ,caterers .

My local hospital in London has had to close wards because they can't staff them .

So they are going to stick elderly frail patients waiting for social care in tents in the car park?

How will these tents be heated, what toilet facilities, where will they wash. will there be any access to TV etc or they just expected to lie in beds all day freezing to death in the car park.

the face of unprecedented demand it's a damn sight better than the alternative.

Really? Personally I agree with the scientists and doctors - that prevention is the solution, and mitigation measures are the best approach. Masks, vaccine passes, ventilation. And, under the current concerning circumstances, avoiding mass gathering super spreading NYE events.

Unprecedented, maybe. Unexpected, definitely not.

We're living through a natural disaster

It's likely a leak from a lab. Accident, yes. Natural, not so much. And the extent of disaster is entirely of our (government's) making. Look East and see how it could have been minimalised.

There was, in fact, no need at all for a pandemic. Two to three months global pandemic border controls (with real quarantine for genuinely essential trace) and isolating cases already in the community. And no pandemic in the first place. We can but hope lessons have been learnt (worldwide) for the next would-be pandemic.

@reesewithoutaspoon

I’m sure provision will be in place for practicalities like toilets, food, TVs etc.

Frankly this is exactly the sort of thing that should’ve been happening long ago. Covid isn’t going anywhere, we’re as protected as we’d going to get with the vast majority having had 3 vaccines.

It’s high time that the solution to more covid hospital cases is increase NHS calamity rather than place draconian restrictions on people’s lives and the economy.

@Timeforabiscuit

In other news, an amazon warehouse has opened in my local area - and apparently the offer of walking over 16 miles a day is a better proposition than low paid care work and social care providers literally can't get the staff.

Social care has been collapsing on itself for so long, I'm wondering how the fuck they're going to spin their way out of this one - and feathers idea is so worryingly plausible I'm expecting a bold new initiative announced this afternoon

I don't blame people - I saw an advert for a Sunday job for Royal Mail (for test deliveries or something) and it was nearly £19ph I mean.. wow

Well, there's a good chance this will "increase NHS calamity" @PinkTree7

PR exercise. I’m horrified, but not surprised, this is their “solution” rather than mandating more NPIs.

It will be for those that don't want to pay for a taxi home and want to cadge a free lift on the NHS.

@Egghead68

NPIs cannot and should not become a normal solution to lack of NHS capacity. Particularly now that the vast majority have had 3 vaccine doses.

The problem is the same as it has been all along: the government needs to funnel money towards people other than their mates. But paying health and social care staff more, recruiting and training more of them... can't have that. There's no way to make it directly profitable for their mates, where as construction contracts are much easier to extract money from.

Staffing across all hospitals will likely be below minimum safe levels over the coming weeks

It's already been like this for months.

[quote PinkTree7]@Egghead68

NPIs cannot and should not become a normal solution to lack of NHS capacity. Particularly now that the vast majority have had 3 vaccine doses.[/quote]
Wearing masks and ventilation cause little inconvenience and reduce numbers in hospital.

Prevention is always better, and in this case cheaper, than cure.

[quote PinkTree7]@reesewithoutaspoon

I’m sure provision will be in place for practicalities like toilets, food, TVs etc.

Frankly this is exactly the sort of thing that should’ve been happening long ago. Covid isn’t going anywhere, we’re as protected as we’d going to get with the vast majority having had 3 vaccines.

It’s high time that the solution to more covid hospital cases is increase NHS calamity rather than place draconian restrictions on people’s lives and the economy.[/quote]
Yes but WHO WILL STAFF IT

Caterers and cleaners don't just magically appear from nowhere. How will we pay for them, and the extra food, extra electricity, logistics to deliver these additional supplies - we already know no one wants to drive lorries and those who did got deported back to the EU - and this is before we have basic care staff, nurses, doctors, admins, receptionists, porters, maintenance staff, discharge coords.

It's not simply a case of build a facility and stick a nurse in there.

Also, keep in mind if it's one big tent for the whole hospital then we will need Docs, nurses and care staff that specialise in multiple different specialities. So Dementia, Stroke, Cardiac care, Paeds, Obs & gynae - the list goes on and on and on.

You can't just lump everyone in together with a nurse who only usually works in theatres for example. The clinical risk is way, way too high without a HUGE multidisciplinery, multispeciality team all of which will need to be present at all times.

I also forgot that these patients will need Physios and OTs on top of everything else for constant assessment, medically fit or not.

I'll get off my soapbox after this post but I really would like to add that Care staff aren't just hired and given some half assed training anymore.

It takes at least a month to hire (putting the role out to post, Interviews, DBS checks), then 2 weeks to train an HCA. Then they have to complete the Skills for Life Care Certificate within a certain timeframe or they get let go.

You can't just stick someone on a ward, have them shadow for a couple of hours then leave them to it. So usually the people that get hired need to actually WANT to do the job and be there.

Oh by the way all of that is unpaid training time too, and you are expected to do a lot of the Care Cert and Mandatory training modules at home in your own time

Wearing masks and ventilation cause little inconvenience and reduce numbers in hospital.

Prevention is always better, and in this case cheaper, than cure.

This 100%.

@Wreath21

The problem is the same as it has been all along: the government needs to funnel money towards people other than their mates. But paying health and social care staff more, recruiting and training more of them... can't have that. There's no way to make it directly profitable for their mates, where as construction contracts are much easier to extract money from.

Yes this.

Wonder why they picked them hospitals to have the extra. My local hospital is royal Preston and don't see where they would build a building for 100 people.

Sal

@MollyQueenOfSocks

Oh by the way all of that is unpaid training time too, and you are expected to do a lot of the Care Cert and Mandatory training modules at home in your own time

... which is another reason why not that many people are rushing to fill the vacancies.

I expect that the 'skills and qualifications' requirements will soon be lowered and, as I said previously, they will start drafting people in whose jobs/industries have been destroyed. Because it won't matter to the government that such people don't have much aptitude for the work, don't like it and are angry and miserable at being coerced into it - just tick a few boxes ie so many warm breathing bodies per building. Probably make it workfare soon.

@Sadless

Wonder why they picked them hospitals to have the extra. My local hospital is royal Preston and don't see where they would build a building for 100 people.

Sal

Yes, I wonder whether these Trusts volunteered for this, or had it thrust upon them somewhat.

They didn't volunteer from what I've read.

Apparently some A&E staff have been asked if they would like to do any extra shifts in the nightingale minis.

Has anyone been getting requests from Care Rooms? In the North East and apparently they discharge from hospital and place the patient in your spare room for you to care for them. Up to £50 a night. The patient must have a private bathroom and various other facilities, family are allowed to visit.

Could you screenshot that??

@Sadless

Wonder why they picked them hospitals to have the extra. My local hospital is royal Preston and don't see where they would build a building for 100 people.

Sal

As far as I understand it from NHS friends, all trusts were asked to identify places of hard standing on their grounds where the temporary structures could be sited.

One of the factors in deciding which hospitals get the first few is where they are expected to be needed.