Nightingale hubs - help /hinderance/PR exercise

[peridito]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59823652

The eight temporary "Nightingale" units will each house about 100 patients, with building starting this week

Royal Preston hospital in Lancashire
St James' University Hospital in Leeds
Lister Hospital in Stevenage
St George's Hospital in Tooting
William Harvey Hospital in Ashford, Kent
North Bristol Hospital
Solihull Hospital
University Hospitals Birmingham
University Hospitals Leicester

temporary structures will be set up in the grounds of hospitals so staff, equipment and emergency departments are close at hand.

Only those patients who are close to being discharged and need minimal support will be cared for at these facilities.

not much detail ,I wonder how much help they'll be by (presumably) providing a hot zone for recovering Covid patients.

But surely this will be extra pressure for NHS staff figuring out resources to accommodate them ,even if they're just erected and not used .And there will be no extra staff to provide care in them ..so increasing bed space by a 100 but no staff ,nurses ,cleaners ,caterers .

My local hospital in London has had to close wards because they can't staff them .

I think the original nightingale hospitals weren't hospitals at all, but places where seriously ill heavily sedated patients could be housed until they died. That's why it might have been possible to staff them, because they wouldn't have been staffed by medics. Thankfully they weren't needed then.

I hope that's not what's been planned for again now.

Good luck with St George’s there’s sod all space unless they plan to build in the cemetery across the road or knock down the houses that surround the hospital

@JohnSmithDrive

I think the original nightingale hospitals weren't hospitals at all, but places where seriously ill heavily sedated patients could be housed until they died. That's why it might have been possible to staff them, because they wouldn't have been staffed by medics. Thankfully they weren't needed then.

I hope that's not what's been planned for again now.

You still need medics for EOL care to prescribe controlled drugs, and a copious amount of care staff as often people in palliative EOL can require 2 or more people to manoeuvre them - and that's just those who are laying in bed, immobile and don't weigh much.

We don't have enough staff to even do that in the existing wards and care settings we have now. This money could be used to actually achieve safer staffing levels and to fund social care and get the "Bed Blockers" out (excuse the term, i'm not keen on it as it is), instead of some huge PR stunt that will sit empty until they try and brush it under the carpet again.

Here's what the King's Fund said about the original Nightingales:

www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hospital-bed-numbers

@JanglyBeads

Weren't they intended for patients on ventilators, so therefore not needing loos etc?

If they were they should have intended to staff them like high dependency units.

And staff also need to eat and wee.

You still need medics for EOL care to prescribe controlled drugs, and a copious amount of care staff as often people in palliative EOL can require 2 or more people to manoeuvre them - and that's just those who are laying in bed, immobile and don't weigh much.

I think they were planning for a situation so desperate we'd have had to accept usual protocols couldn't be followed.

@GiveMeNovocain

We're looking at expanding discharge capacity in this way as it's pretty much Christmas our only option given we can't recruit carers. We've found people are more likely to go for care type roles if employed by the NHS (probably due to better t&cs) so we're not going in without thinking about staffing. We need the hospital beds urgently

@GiveMeNovocain where are these staff going to come from whether registered HCPs or non registered? The issue is here not in 3 months time when the recruitment process finally allows someone to start working?

The NHS don’t have enough staff to man acute beds without stopping non urgent surgery and outpatient appointments as it stands, never mind adding extra capacity in hubs.

If we are at the stage of looking at extra capacity where hospital beds do not belong then the government are grossly negligent in their lack of action.

@ShampooDoodle

Good luck with St George’s there’s sod all space unless they plan to build in the cemetery across the road or knock down the houses that surround the hospital

It's in the car park

metro.co.uk/2021/12/30/st-georges-hospital-turns-car-park-into-nightingale-hub-for-omicron-15841350/

As well as a magic money tree, I’m presuming they also have a magic medically trained staff tree as well.

One has to ask where these Magic trees have been when it comes to funding and resourcing the rest of the NHS.

@CoedenNadolig

Ah I see.

My impression of the original Nightingales were they were sadly places to die, because they had massive morgues fitted on to them so the feeding and showering sadly would not have been needed.

It's so grim and horrid to actually write that out 🥺

I've no idea what they were intended for.

It can't have been a well thought out plan because they weren't used.

I find it difficult to accept that anyone familiar with patient care pathways or staff logistics or even basic human needs had any input on the Nightingales.

@JohnSmithDrive

You still need medics for EOL care to prescribe controlled drugs, and a copious amount of care staff as often people in palliative EOL can require 2 or more people to manoeuvre them - and that's just those who are laying in bed, immobile and don't weigh much.

I think they were planning for a situation so desperate we'd have had to accept usual protocols couldn't be followed.

Instead they raised the 111 thresholds for ambulances and paramedics and people died at home/in care homes.

@GiveMeNovocain

We're looking at expanding discharge capacity in this way as it's pretty much Christmas our only option given we can't recruit carers. We've found people are more likely to go for care type roles if employed by the NHS (probably due to better t&cs) so we're not going in without thinking about staffing. We need the hospital beds urgently

Good point about better t&cs possibly attracting more staff ,I hadn't thought of it like that .

Fingers crossed .

The Kings Fund on NHS bed capacity:

www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hospital-bed-numbers

Great quote in the Guardian comments section just now , building these hubs is like building more pubs without enough alcohol to go in them.

Made me smile , even though this very serious of course.

@scooterbear

I mean this is just a joke isn't it? The nhs is under strain due to staff shortage but we'll expand bed capacity anyway and staff it with.....? Which is exactly what we did before at great cost...but no real benefit. We won't put in any restrictions because the economy, but we will advise people to test to avoid passing the virus on and thus swamping the nhs but there are no tests so... I don't understand any of this thinking. I'm tired.

Well the Nightingale brand worked really well last time.

People who wanted to be reassured that the government was doing something were reassured, the government got plenty of positive press out of it. Tory donors got lucrative contracts to set them up and dismantle them.

Win-Win-Win

Wondering what mates of the Tories will benefit from this latest development?

@the80sweregreat

Great quote in the Guardian comments section just now , building these hubs is like building more pubs without enough alcohol to go in them.

Made me smile , even though this very serious of course.

"There's no beer shortage.

The beer is in barrels in a shipping container somewhere.

It's just not in the beer tent where the beer-drinkers are waiting."

(And there are no pumps to get the beer out of the barrels, no understanding that the beer will need to settle after its journey, and no bar staff or glasses, or indeed glass washers to clean said glasses. And in all probability no toilets.)

I can't tell any more if the government are useless and lack the ability to organise a piss up in a brewery or if they just can't be arsed to do anything well or properly.

Didn't this work well with porter cabins at one of the London hospitals last time round. Imagine they will be staffed by nursing, healthcare sciences and medical students plus admin staff.

@dontcallmelen

Wondering what mates of the Tories will benefit from this latest development?

Gazebo erectors ? I watched a programme once about one company in Surrey and they are now doing very well with the 'outdoor party ' market. I'm sure one or two are friends with Boris Johnson or Javid for these lean months before spring.

Maybe they're a sort of Covid camp for the people who have recovered from whatever they were in hospital for. So they can pretty much look after themselves.

Covid camp ! Yes, put them in the car parks in giant hubs , what can go wrong ?
Where will the staff and visitors go to park their cars ? Most hospitals have a ring of steel around them with regards to parking anywhere outside too :(
I hope they can be exempt from any fines at least if parking capacity is reduced.

@allbartwo

Maybe they're a sort of Covid camp for the people who have recovered from whatever they were in hospital for. So they can pretty much look after themselves.

@allbartwo I can’t work out if you’re joking/being sarcastic?

If people have recovered from what they were in hospital for and are able to pretty much look after themselves, they should be at home doing that?

Besides anything don't hospitals struggle to provide enough parking for staff and patients from their often huge catchment areas? That's not going to go down well with the poor sods driving round looking for a space.

@allbartwo

Maybe they're a sort of Covid camp for the people who have recovered from whatever they were in hospital for. So they can pretty much look after themselves.

I don’t think it will be a covid step down facility. People with covid are either sick enough to need treatment and oxygen (ie too ill for a tent in the car park) or they’re well enough to go home.

Possibly an area to put bed blockers due to lack of social care/nursing homes so they can stick a load of old grannies in a tent with next to no nursing care. What can possibly go wrong?

@allbartwo

Maybe they're a sort of Covid camp for the people who have recovered from whatever they were in hospital for. So they can pretty much look after themselves.

Wouldn't they just be discharged if they didn't need to be in hospital any more?