Rule changes in Scotland and Wales will England follow

[Sadless]

Now the changes have come in to Scotland and Wales will it happen here or will we not need to now.

Thanks
Sal

Unlikely. Wales has throughout enforced stricter rules for longer than England. Johnson is totally unswayed by what happens here.

No. Sturgeon and drakeford main concern to try and show they are "better than Boris/England"

@Flapjacker48

No. Sturgeon and drakeford main concern to try and show they are "better than Boris/England"

Luckily they don't really need to try!

Doubt it. Johnson isn't operating in a political environment where there's any expectation that he'll mirror the devolved governments. The opposite if anything. Although Drakeford's decision to fine employees going into work rather than their employers is straight out of the right wing corporate arselicking playbook, so if the Tory backbench weren't so against further restrictions I'd be worried they'd be getting ideas.

How will anyone on here know?

I'm praying for no or him to issue it as guidance only so people can make their own decision. Wish he would shield the vulnerable so they aren't expected to go to work tho. Everyone we know who wasn't vulnerable has had at most a cold off it so would have no need for protective restrictions

The context and intention of the fines has been slightly misrepresented by people who hate Drakeford. This is a clear and reasonable explanation:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/first-minister-welsh-welsh-government-omicron-gmb-b1980841.html

Hopefully not.

@Flapjacker48

No. Sturgeon and drakeford main concern to try and show they are "better than Boris/England"

Yes, because of course the main concern of the Scottish and Welsh governments is what England is doing rather than wanting to act in what they think is the best interests of the people they serve.

[quote Claudethecat]The context and intention of the fines has been slightly misrepresented by people who hate Drakeford. This is a clear and reasonable explanation:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/first-minister-welsh-welsh-government-omicron-gmb-b1980841.html[/quote]
Well, it's Drakeford making some unconvincing claims about legislation that allows an individual worker to be fined. Not really the same thing. It's a terrible law, and for someone supposedly left wing it's inexcusable. The potential implications here for workers are awful.

I think Scotland, wales and NI have jumped the gun and it’ll make it harder for the public to trust their judgment in future ( if necessary).
But it’s also good as it’ll mean we can see if these policy restrictions are really necessary as we can compare between the nations now which we couldn’t do as easily before.
If they weren’t/ aren’t necessary it’ll make it harder to justify imposing them ever again.

@VikingOnTheFridge

Doubt it. Johnson isn't operating in a political environment where there's any expectation that he'll mirror the devolved governments. The opposite if anything. Although Drakeford's decision to fine employees going into work rather than their employers is straight out of the right wing corporate arselicking playbook, so if the Tory backbench weren't so against further restrictions I'd be worried they'd be getting ideas.

Agree. Johnson doesn’t give a hoot what the other three nations decide do policy wise as it has no consequences for England whereas the other three nations always seem to reference Boris or Westminster in their decisions. It’s just numbers really, what a nation of 5 million do or don’t do will have zero impact on what a nation of 55 million do (particularly if restrictions are actually tighter) but the same is not true the other way round.

Drakeford explained re the workers and the employers would get fine £1000 I think. This is not new it was in place all along just that the media have decided to use it. It is to stop employers forcing employees to work if it is possible for them to work from home.

@julie81

Drakeford explained re the workers and the employers would get fine £1000 I think. This is not new it was in place all along just that the media have decided to use it. It is to stop employers forcing employees to work if it is possible for them to work from home.

The legislation states that the person commits an offence, though. That means either the law was intended to criminalise individual workers, or it wasn't and it's very badly drafted. Either one of those is a problem. Drakeford is in the wrong whichever it is.

I bet not one single worker gets fined.

@Claudethecat

I bet not one single worker gets fined.

I hope not. Fingers crossed if anyone is, they fight it. But that's not really the point. The statute shouldn't exist in the first place. It doesn't become ok for governments to pass oppressive laws just because following an outcry they later opt not to use them. If a government doesn't want to use these powers, they don't need them in the first place. So why are they there?

I know but when he spoke the impression was def that employers not employee would be fined. I agree badly worded but this has been in place right from work from home starting last year and media are only using it now. It is not a good look though.

It's because of the legislative change last week maybe, not sure. And honestly, people deserve better than it sounding like employees won't be fined. The law should be clear. When a statute gives the government powers to criminalise people that they don't intend to use, why is it not being amended?

How will anyone on here know?

From what I’ve read about how the govt watches and uses social media as a source of information and coercion, I’d be surprised if they were not closely watching forums like this.

So we might not know it, but potentially, just expressing a view has an impact. We could all turn out to be clairvoyants.

@puppeteer

How will anyone on here know?

From what I’ve read about how the govt watches and uses social media as a source of information and coercion, I’d be surprised if they were not closely watching forums like this.

So we might not know it, but potentially, just expressing a view has an impact. We could all turn out to be clairvoyants.

Oh no, if the Government are taking notice of randoms claiming they know stuff on MN we really are in trouble!

The rule changes in Wales and Scotland don't even match each other. The idea there is any science behind this is ludicrous.
The virus can tell different groups apart in a pub? Three households is Scotland but 6 individuals in Wales? Which is best? Which is based on the science? Which experts are correct? The Scottish ones or the Welsh ones? Your safe with 100 people indoors in Scotland but only 50 in Wales?
Made up rules, just to be seen to be doing something, and will almost certainly make no real world difference, other than continue to screw over the hospitality and events sector which are already on their knees.

Nope. We will just all crack on

I hope that in England we don't go back down this route. I think we may well avoid it.

After all, Boris and Rishi will hardly be eager to reintroduce furlough as it is horrendously expensive.

I don't think anyone misunderstood the law. £60 for workers, £1000 for employers. If Drakeford has no intention of fining workers, why have the fine process in place? If people went into work and no one, staff or company, was fined, what's the point of the legislation? Is he really introducing legislation of police fines to make the workers patrol their employers? Are poorly paid staff worried about their jobs really going to do that?

I believe MD is doing his best to bring Wales through the pandemic with as limited loss of life as possible. I'm not sure he's quite as concerned about Wales' economy but regardless I'm not criticising him for trying, but this is a ridiculous, unfair, pointless law.

We will know tomorrow I think