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In talks for 4th booster..

185 replies

Maddymorphosis · 23/12/2021 07:41

According to the DM and other sources, Israel and Germany have already announced this.

Ffs.. then the 5th at Easter, 6th in summer and so on?

Are people really willing to get vaccinated every few months ?

OP posts:
JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 24/12/2021 08:00

@Omicrone

I was more ill after my booster than I was when I actually had Covid. If you can still transmit it, then I am starting to think what's the point?

I will probably be considering a bit more carefully about the vaccines from here on in.

Your chances of getting it or transmitting Covid are significantly reduced by having the vaccines.

If anecdotal evidence helps you, I slept in the same bed as my husband when he had Covid but didn't catch it. The vaccine is doing its job.

You can still die in a car accident while wearing a seatbelt but the chances of survival are better.

todaysdilemma · 24/12/2021 09:38

@herecomesthsun

Natural immunity causes death? What, for the common cold? Which is exactly what omicron is now for almost everyone. No one has challenged getting the first 2 doses and boosters only when immunity wanes. Or a booster for a deadly variant. Boosters every 3 months to ward off variants that are like a common cold is just insane. Much better to use those doses to vaccinate rest of the world.

Also- have you looked at the registered interests of all the members of sage? Ex directors of GSK, someone with a wife at GSK, a whole bunch of others who's research has been funded by pharma companies... and we wonder why they are main stream. The same GSk who have also come out with a Covid vaccine. All research is funded by someone, scientists aren't bank rolling their own research so I think it's much better to trust those without big pharma connections who have experience in managing pandemics. Not a bunch of researchers with no real world knowledge of how to strategically co-manage a global crisis. We rage against politicians for backhanding contracts to their buddies on testing, yet stay shtum when the scientists dictating policy are not at all transparent about vested interests. The Gov only published their interests after the BMJ issued a FOI request and challenged Valance's shareholding in GSK.

It's exactly like that chap Dalszak who was investigating how Covid came to be and reported it was not a lab leak. Then months later we find out he has a financial/research interest in the Wuhan labs and last week a team from Harvard have presented to our MPs that Covid is most likely a lab leak and an engineered virus.

The level of corruption and profiteering that this pandemic has brought out is so incredibly immoral. And sadly there's no unbiased watchdog here to monitor and investigate. Everything has an opportunity cost and taking boosters every few months absolutely will adversely impact something else. No one has done the research yet to understand the impact on the pandemic, economy or health, and I'm glad to see at least Sunak and Truss are pushing for more data/evidence before they roll out a fourth dose.

Kshhuxnxk · 24/12/2021 09:41

No I won't. I've done my bit, I even took my flu jab this year which I never take even though being entitled to it every year. Hopefully next year those who want booster will take it same with flu jab.

KloppKrazy · 24/12/2021 09:42

The cost of each dose of Pfizer is pretty high is it not?

herecomesthsun · 24/12/2021 09:59

[quote todaysdilemma]@herecomesthsun

Natural immunity causes death? What, for the common cold? Which is exactly what omicron is now for almost everyone. No one has challenged getting the first 2 doses and boosters only when immunity wanes. Or a booster for a deadly variant. Boosters every 3 months to ward off variants that are like a common cold is just insane. Much better to use those doses to vaccinate rest of the world.

Also- have you looked at the registered interests of all the members of sage? Ex directors of GSK, someone with a wife at GSK, a whole bunch of others who's research has been funded by pharma companies... and we wonder why they are main stream. The same GSk who have also come out with a Covid vaccine. All research is funded by someone, scientists aren't bank rolling their own research so I think it's much better to trust those without big pharma connections who have experience in managing pandemics. Not a bunch of researchers with no real world knowledge of how to strategically co-manage a global crisis. We rage against politicians for backhanding contracts to their buddies on testing, yet stay shtum when the scientists dictating policy are not at all transparent about vested interests. The Gov only published their interests after the BMJ issued a FOI request and challenged Valance's shareholding in GSK.

It's exactly like that chap Dalszak who was investigating how Covid came to be and reported it was not a lab leak. Then months later we find out he has a financial/research interest in the Wuhan labs and last week a team from Harvard have presented to our MPs that Covid is most likely a lab leak and an engineered virus.

The level of corruption and profiteering that this pandemic has brought out is so incredibly immoral. And sadly there's no unbiased watchdog here to monitor and investigate. Everything has an opportunity cost and taking boosters every few months absolutely will adversely impact something else. No one has done the research yet to understand the impact on the pandemic, economy or health, and I'm glad to see at least Sunak and Truss are pushing for more data/evidence before they roll out a fourth dose.[/quote]
Infection with coronvirus can be fatal, you know.

More so than the common cold.

That is why it's better to get the vaccine than get infected first off.

As regards boosters, they are especially helpful for the more vulnerable/exposed.

We don't really know how this will pan out exactly, but I'm certainly hoping that a degree of immunity will build up eventually so that deaths & severe illness at least become a lot less common.

Personally, I'm very grateful for modern medicine and certainly don't see it as primarily being about profiteering, though of course there's a financial aspect to do with how treatments are developed, organised and delivered.

With the best will in the world, it's not possible to do that without a lot of funding, and there is certainly an element of wanting to do good in the pharmaceutical industry, AZ wanted to provide a non-profit vaccine.

todaysdilemma · 24/12/2021 10:01

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59776415

And Dr Jenny Harries of the UKHSA on the bbc today that it's still too early to retract her statement that omicron is our deadliest threat since covid started... because all the stats from imperial and South Africa that it's way milder than delta aren't good enough.

The best thing she's said though is: that the govt also needs to look at more than hospitalisation figures as a large number of people are off sick from work. So omicron is dangerous as it's affecting the workforce. And that's why measures are needed to protect the workforce. Grin

People are only off sick because they've been told to isolate with common cold symptoms, and take boosters and are suffering side effects from boosters! It's such flawed logic, I struggle to understand the rationale for anything they do.They're clutching at straws now to justify more lockdowns and boosters.

sleepwouldbenice · 24/12/2021 10:05

@todaysdilemma

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59776415

And Dr Jenny Harries of the UKHSA on the bbc today that it's still too early to retract her statement that omicron is our deadliest threat since covid started... because all the stats from imperial and South Africa that it's way milder than delta aren't good enough.

The best thing she's said though is: that the govt also needs to look at more than hospitalisation figures as a large number of people are off sick from work. So omicron is dangerous as it's affecting the workforce. And that's why measures are needed to protect the workforce. Grin

People are only off sick because they've been told to isolate with common cold symptoms, and take boosters and are suffering side effects from boosters! It's such flawed logic, I struggle to understand the rationale for anything they do.They're clutching at straws now to justify more lockdowns and boosters.

Did you read the other bbc news articles which gave a distinct list of the pros and cons of where we are now and what is known and what is uncertain No of course you didn't I would take dr harries view on the overall picture every day over yours
todaysdilemma · 24/12/2021 10:06

@herecomesthsun

Well, if people get their first 2 doses coronavirus has been neutralised to a common cold for the majority! That's the point. So yes, the initial vaccines are important but the boosters are pointless right now. In a year when immunity wanes, yes. Now- taking a 3rd and 4th when we are still in the vaccine efficacy period is bonkers. We are all protected from death and severe disease with 2 doses.

We have diverted nhs resources from cancer and other severe disease, used a lot of funds that could be used on other things, we have crippled hospitality, reduced productivity in the workforce, and denied other countries a first dose. For what?! When this is milder than delta? And 2 doses were enough for delta, why do we need a 3rd at such urgency when we didn't for delta. Medicine is great but it's not supposed to be provided at such a high cost to everything else.

VikingOnTheFridge · 24/12/2021 10:11

I'm not arsed. I don't really have any barriers to accessing vaccines though, which helps.

todaysdilemma · 24/12/2021 10:11

@sleepwouldbenice

Have you looked at the data the BBC pros and cons were based on? And how incredibly flawed it is, which is exactly why it is being challenged by the WHO and other parts of the Govt. Omicron is not the only thing that needs to be considered. In a pandemic there are a raft of other factors - and Harries' modelling, like with SAGE, doesn't account for any of it. It is short termist, based on a brief by the Govt, and she isn't responsible for resolving the pandemic or treating other disease or saving the economy.

Legoninjago1 · 24/12/2021 10:13

Yep. I expect to have to have at least 2 more boosters in 2022. After that hopefully things will settle down and Covid will be more spread out like colds etc.

sleepwouldbenice · 24/12/2021 10:16

[quote todaysdilemma]@sleepwouldbenice

Have you looked at the data the BBC pros and cons were based on? And how incredibly flawed it is, which is exactly why it is being challenged by the WHO and other parts of the Govt. Omicron is not the only thing that needs to be considered. In a pandemic there are a raft of other factors - and Harries' modelling, like with SAGE, doesn't account for any of it. It is short termist, based on a brief by the Govt, and she isn't responsible for resolving the pandemic or treating other disease or saving the economy.[/quote]
Please send me the link to where this article is being challenged by the WHO etc Given it's a few hours old

Omicron: Good news, bad news and what it all means www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59769967

I am not for one minute saying covid is the only thing to be considered. But deciding that as it might be milder then that's the end of it whilst ignoring all the other aspects is incredibly naive, at best

Chloemol · 24/12/2021 10:18

As I don’t want to be seriously ill then yes

todaysdilemma · 24/12/2021 10:20

@sleepwouldbenice this was published by the WHO yesterday

www.who.int/news/item/22-12-2021-interim-statement-on-booster-doses-for-covid-19-vaccination---update-22-december-2021

And remember, Jenny Harries and our SAGE would have been told all this before it was actually published. It may explain why she's released her statement today in response to this WHO statement yesterday and also the Imperial stats being released yesterday. Wonderful timing to back track.

changingstages · 24/12/2021 10:20

Totally happy to, yep.

Chloemol · 24/12/2021 10:22

@todaysdilemma

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59776415]]

And Dr Jenny Harries of the UKHSA on the bbc today that it's still too early to retract her statement that omicron is our deadliest threat since covid started... because all the stats from imperial and South Africa that it's way milder than delta aren't good enough.

The best thing she's said though is: that the govt also needs to look at more than hospitalisation figures as a large number of people are off sick from work. So omicron is dangerous as it's affecting the workforce. And that's why measures are needed to protect the workforce. Grin

People are only off sick because they've been told to isolate with common cold symptoms, and take boosters and are suffering side effects from boosters! It's such flawed logic, I struggle to understand the rationale for anything they do.They're clutching at straws now to justify more lockdowns and boosters.

Oh go away,

People are being told to isolate until a PCR tells them one way or the other couple of days max for those with colds

As to side effects from boosters, yes possibly, but as over 100k a day are currently testing positive for covid it’s better to do this that spread it further when it really will seriously affect the work force

todaysdilemma · 24/12/2021 10:27

Isolating until a PCR tells them to is absence, is it not? In London the advice has been to isolate even with a negative LFT if you have cold symptoms. Given LFTs aren't even easily available atm, do you want to estimate how much absence that is?

All for a virus that everyone now agrees is mild. But yes, let's use absence to justify a lockdown.

MaxNormal · 24/12/2021 10:44

Looks like it's going to be pretty regular based on government advertising.

In talks for 4th booster..
Iheartmysmart · 24/12/2021 10:47

Currently 48 hours post booster and feeling absolutely shocking. Had awful side effects lasting at least a week after both of my initial jabs as well.

Unless there is going to be a system put in place for a fully paid week off sick and someone to cover household chores and dog walking for a week every few months for these continual boosters then I’m very reluctant to get any more.

Blubells · 24/12/2021 10:50

Sounds like the side effects of these 'boosters' are worse than catching omicron for many Confused??

Omicrone · 24/12/2021 10:51

Surely it's going to be much more difficult to get people boosted in 'the next round' as we go into spring, the numbers aren't quite so scary and shitloads of people will have already had covid and realised the booster made them feel worse than having covid itself?

Are people really willing to have a 3 monthly booster indefinitely?

CUniverse · 24/12/2021 10:54

What a fucking joke.

Stop jabbing the west and get everyone else jabbed.

Won’t we all be vaccine dependent? Will out immunise systems take a battering after some point?

Taking any pharmaceutical over and over again has side effects. Are you all just happy to put yourselves at risk to what those might be in the future instead of being interested of more effective ways of getting rid of this thing? Wouldn’t medication to treat be more effective than multiple jabs each year?

Sure you can’t all think this in the most effective way to get rid of Covid?

RachC2021 · 24/12/2021 11:07

@CUniverse

What a fucking joke.

Stop jabbing the west and get everyone else jabbed.

Won’t we all be vaccine dependent? Will out immunise systems take a battering after some point?

Taking any pharmaceutical over and over again has side effects. Are you all just happy to put yourselves at risk to what those might be in the future instead of being interested of more effective ways of getting rid of this thing? Wouldn’t medication to treat be more effective than multiple jabs each year?

Sure you can’t all think this in the most effective way to get rid of Covid?

I didn’t realise that paracetamol I took five years ago is supposed to still be effective now. Thanks for letting me know!
OnwardsAndSideways1 · 24/12/2021 11:11

The other thing not mentioned much on this thread- if the NHS is spending all its fine and resources continually doing huge vaccination programmes every few months, then it is not able to run the rest of the system properly. There has to be a point at which that is not a good use of resources; there are already excess deaths not due to Covid, and millions are waiting for basic healthcare.

Continual boosting non CV/CEV people, who aren't at high risk anyway, diverts resources away from international sharing of vaccines, and diverts health-care workers away from treating us for the other horrible things we can get that also cause disability and death.

sleepwouldbenice · 24/12/2021 11:16

[quote todaysdilemma]@sleepwouldbenice this was published by the WHO yesterday

www.who.int/news/item/22-12-2021-interim-statement-on-booster-doses-for-covid-19-vaccination---update-22-december-2021

And remember, Jenny Harries and our SAGE would have been told all this before it was actually published. It may explain why she's released her statement today in response to this WHO statement yesterday and also the Imperial stats being released yesterday. Wonderful timing to back track. [/quote]
Doesn't contradict the article though does it?
Nice try