Did this all start with a Pangolin?!

[Bubblty]

Hi, My DH says this all came from a Pangolin. Is that right? I've tried to read online but it's hard to know what is reputable and what isn't. Does anyone know where it came from yet? I know there was talk of a wet market and bats.

So if we will never know is someone watching out for the next one in all the places it could emerge?

Scientists around the globe are looking for the next zoonotic disease - diseases which can pass from animals to humans and have been for years. The Gates Foundation funds work on this giving rise to some of the more absurd conspiracy theories.

There are many of these diseases which have been around for along time eg Anthrax, Rabies, Plague. But they have increased dramatically in recent years as a result of increased contact between humans and animals as natural ecosystems decline. Recent examples include HiV, SARS-CoV1 in China in 2002, and Covid19. There will be many more in the next decades.

The big difference with Covid19 is that it spread so quickly. This was a result of high level of infectiousness, and an attempted cover up by the authorities in Wuhan coming around Chinese New Year. This allowed millions of potentially infected people to travel in China and abroad and the disease was seeded across the globe. The fact that the Wuhan Lab was involved in researching bat born corona viruses of which Covid 19 is an example is obviously relevant here.

Given the way humans have trafficked pangolins almost to extinction, it would be a fitting revenge if this is true

@jesuistot

I’m sure I read an article about a theory linking it to some cave workers back in 2012? I’ll have to have a look again as it was very interesting.

Who knows how it really came about.

I find the different theories really fascinating for some reason. Just the idea that potentially few freak occurrences and moments has wrecked so much havoc.

China has known about this virus since 2012 when miners working in a cave contracted an unknown pneumonia from bats. Since then, the lab in Wuhan has been working on the virus to make it more transmissible in humans. There was a documentary on Channel 4 about it that someone has already linked. See also:

www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/chinas-mojiang-mine-its-role-origins-covid-19-2021-06-09/

It’s one hell of a coincidence for it not to be connected with this. As much as as I hate wet markets and the animal cruelty associated with them, I don’t think they were responsible for Covid.

@KloppKrazy

The poor pangolins getting dragged into this It's like blaming some weird outbreak near Porton Down on the local badgers.

This!

The pangolins need to lawyer up and start taking action against the media for defamation.

I can just imagine a lawyer reading out a statement, whilst the spokes-pangolin stands next to him looking solemn.

@LadyCampanulaTottington

I firmly believe it escaped from the lab in Wuhan. Coronaviruses have been around as long as humans have but this one is unlike any others found in nature.

As a previous poster said “if it quacks like a duck”…

Yes I think there are a lot of coincidences around the location of the lab and the market etc. I don’t believe it was a deliberate leak, but probably poor practice and carelessness that have caused the situation.

I think people were quick to dismiss the theory because Trump went on about the China virus and sounded like a conspiracy loon at the time.

And yes, everyone should watch the covid South Parks because they were hilarious. There’s a two part post covid special that has just been on US tv.

@StrangeAddiction

Lab leak either accidentally or on purpose is more likely and WHO and others are basically saying the same.

This.

It's highly coincidental that the outbreak happened near a lab researching coronaviruses. Highly.

It's been around longer than 2020. Probably from a lab leak. I saw on the news last year that a guy in France had presented to hospital in the summer 2019 with a flu like illness he was tested for flu. Negative obviously. When news of covid broke they retested it and covid was found. My ex husband an I both came down in jan 2020 with the worst cough and cold ever , ex husband went to hospital he was that bad. Doctors said they've seen lots of people with this nasty virus going around. They didn't know about covid at the time .

Another coincidence was the reports of 3 Wuhan lab employees who all presented to hospital in November 2019 with pneumonia/flu symptoms. They must have been fairly unwell to need hospital treatment. Will we ever find out the truth about how this first infected humans? I would have thought this would be one of the WHO's most important priorities!

@kwiksavenofrillsusername

And yes, everyone should watch the covid South Parks because they were hilarious. There’s a two part post covid special that has just been on US tv.

The first one was really good, especially Randy's speech: "You don't understand. My wife is crazy. If she finds out I fucked a bat and started the pandemic, she's going to be a total bitch about it."

@Staffy1

I thought the latest theory was that it was more than likely created (or modified unnaturally from an existing bat virus) in a lab as it’s unlike anything seen before in nature. I will try and find the link.

It's not unlike anything found in nature. Honestly!

@Staffy1

I thought the latest theory was that it was more than likely created (or modified unnaturally from an existing bat virus) in a lab as it’s unlike anything seen before in nature. I will try and find the link.

Not found a reputable link then?

@knittingadict, I gave up trying, but I assure you there was one in the daily mail a week or two ago, will look again, but I have to search for a certain word and all the words I can think of bring up loads and loads of articles.

@knittingaddict

There are numerous sources linking Covid with the Wuhan lab, however without the co operation of the Chinese Government there is very little hard evidence and to be honest given it took 12 months before the Chinese Gov let the WHO into Wuhan and then they have ruled out any further investigations any evidence that did exist has long been eradicated. So it seems most likely we will never get an affirmative answer.

However there is a really good Channel 4 documentary that I would recommend on whether Covid did or did not leak from the lab.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/did-covid-leak-from-a-lab-in-china?cntsrc=socialshareeiosdiddcovidleakkfromaalabinn_china

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10313053/Covid-19-UK-Wuhan-lab-leak-likely-origin-Covid-MPs-told.html

There’s one, don’t think it was the one I saw, but also indicates the same thing:
“Harvard scientist Dr Alina Chan told the Science and Technology Select Committee that it is 'reasonable' to believe that Covid was genetically engineered in China”
DID COVID LEAK FROM A WUHAN LAB? THE EVIDENCE FOR AND AGAINST
Evidence for Wuhan lab-leak theory

An article in the respected Science journal on May 14 kick-started the surge in interest for the lab-leak theory.

Some 18 experts wrote in the journal that 'we must take hypotheses about both natural and laboratory spillovers seriously until we have sufficient data'.

Later that month, a study by British Professor Angus Dalgleish and Norwegian scientist Dr Birger Sørensen claimed it had 'prima facie evidence of retro-engineering in China' for a year.

The study included accusations of 'deliberate destruction, concealment or contamination of data' at Chinese labs.

It followed statements from the WHO Director General, US and EU that greater clarity about the origins of this pandemic is necessary and feasible to achieve.

Previously, the theory had been dismissed as conspiracy by most experts, partly because of its association with President Donald Trump.

President Joe Biden in May ordered a full investigation into the origin of the pandemic virus and demanded scientists work out whether there is truth to the theory.

The head of the World Health Organization insisted just a day earlier that the theory that Covid emerged from a Wuhan lab has not been ruled out — as he said China should help solve the mystery out of 'respect' for the dead.

The body's director-general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, suggested that Beijing had not cooperated fully as he urged more 'transparency' in the continuing investigation.

Evidence against the theory

Several other sects of the scientific community continue to suggest the virus could only be natural in origin.

A series of recent papers pointed to the virus evolving in animals before being transmitted to humans, in the same way as all other previously discovered coronaviruses.

The first study, published in Scientific Reports, showed some 47,000 wild animals from 38 species were sold across four markets in Wuhan between May 2017 and November 2019.

The authors, including Dr Chris Newman, an evolutionary ecologist at Oxford University, claimed the evidence showed the conditions for animal-to-human transmission were in place in Wuhan.

But they acknowledged there was no proof Sars-CoV-2 was present or originated in any of these animals.

A joint World Health Organization-China investigation also concluded it was 'very likely' the virus jumped from bats to humans via an as-yet-unknown intermediary animal.

Dr Chan added: 'We know this virus (Covid) has a unique feature, called the furin cleavage site, and without this feature there is no way this would be causing this pandemic.

'A proposals was leaked showing that EcoHealth and the Wuhan Institute of Virology were developing a pipeline for inserting novel furin cleavage sites. So, you find these scientists who said in early 2018 'I'm going to put horns on horses' and at the end of 2019 a unicorn turns up in Wuhan city.'

Yes I think the current theory is that there were experiments being done in a lab, and this is the result of some lax safely/ security.

However we may never know!

Another one:

“ Viscount Matt Ridley, who co-authored the book with Dr Chan, also said a lab leak is now the most likely theory because experts have still not found the animal host that would support a natural origin despite two years of extensive searching.”

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10320621/Brit-scientist-took-year-declare-links-Chinese-lab-opposing-Covid-lab-leak-theory.html

Since then, the lab in Wuhan has been working on the virus to make it more transmissible in humans. why on earth would someone do that?!

@kinttingaddict

Much as it's bad to feed a troll who can't use a search engine, here is the first result when I did a search:
nypost.com/2021/06/06/damning-science-shows-covid-19-likely-engineered-in-lab/

It's like nothing from nature (hence why it came from a lab doing 'gain of function' research).

It's very unpleasant to see aggressive people who can't do their own research try and bully others, maybe have a cup of tea or something?
I am sure you feel like you are 'fighting misinformation', but you come across very badly.

It was definitely a directive given by the lizard king. His reptilian people in the lab then set to work making a virus synthesised from Bigfoot then casually spread by the greys who walk amongst us. I thought this was common knowledge

I think probably accidental infection of lab staff - there's no motive for deliberate infection.

I can see why it made sense to deny it though, by every government - ok, it's shit, but realistically what could the Chinese lab do? They can't afford to pay reparation to the whole world, and it would result in really nasty racism against perfectly innocent Chinese people. Not to mention the fact that sanctions against China (inappropriate ones - it was an accident in a lab) would mean millions of innocent citizens plunged into even deeper poverty.

It's better for everyone to just accept it and crack on with dealing with it.

Article from Jan 2020 mentions possibility of wet market/wild animal (no pangolins though, or penguins ) involvement for 'Mysterious illness outbreak in China'.

'Some of the people who have become ill worked at a seafood market in Wuhan, which also sold chickens, bats and other wild mammals – suggesting that the virus may have been spread to people from one of these animals. “The general public should avoid this type of market, and avoid eating wild animals,” says Leo Poon at Hong Kong University.'

Read more: www.newscientist.com/article/2229639-mysterious-illness-outbreak-in-china-seems-to-be-caused-by-a-new-virus/#ixzz7Fo3zYem5

China has known about this virus since 2012 when miners working in a cave contracted an unknown pneumonia from bats. Since then, the lab in Wuhan has been working on the virus to make it more transmissible in humans.

Why would anyone want to make the virus more transmissible in humans?

Why would anyone want to make the virus more transmissible in humans?

A lot of the work these labs are doing is geared towards predicting and modelling future pandemics. If you think that might take the form of an animal virus mutating and infecting humans, it's far easier to study that outcome if you can actually infect humanised mice with the 'human' strain of the virus.

It's not just about the Covid we've all become familiar with, they are using that, and many others, to model potential future infections in an effort to discover how we might best prevent and fight future pandemics.