Welsh government overreaching now fines for working

[justasking111]

Well this has caused dismay you must try to work from home your employer must enable this from Monday, your vehicle stopped £60 fine, employer 1k fine.

You'll be fined if you live in Wales but work in England

If your role can not be done from.home then the employer will need to justify why.

But why are the employees being fined here. There have been loads of posts on Mumsnet about bosses who don’t care about the rules and want people in anyway, what’s an individual meant to do in that situation. Why are they being fined.

@Covidworries

Its a pandemic, the virus spreads through close contact. People going to a workplace when the role can be done from home. Means close cpntact with colleagues, possible public transport contacts too.

Working from home during other restrictions will reduce spread.
If your role can not be done from.home then the employer will need to justify why. Checkout worker, very clear cant be done at home. Employer gives employee letter to show. Distribution lorry driver cant be done from home employer gives employee letter.
Admin role which previously was done via work from home can likely be done from home again so employee should facilitate this. Or be able to explain why this isnt feasible.
Employee unable to work from home due to health, or resource issue should discuss with employer so this can be evidenced in HR and then they also will have a letter to carry.

Or we can carry on with no mitigations and cross out fingers that the essential services we all need dont go to shit

And all this is going to happen in a week when many people are off anyway because it's Christmas? Screens, chairs, DSE risk assessments, OH and HR referrals for staff in mental distress completed and signed off, policies updated, issued and confirmed by staff?

All that in 2/3 days? Aye right.

In Germany a worker fell down his own stairs and it was determined to be a workplace accident as he had been told to work from home. How do you address those aspect?

I am FLAT OUT with my own actual job. I finish tomorrow, back in next week. When is all this supposed to actually happen?!

If employees could get fined too they aare far more likely to challange a employer who has not arranged work from home to either give them the evidence they need or to allow wfh.

Plans should already be in place from previous lockdowns. I know the letters given out previous lockdowns are still on work systems. As are risk assessments etc.
They just need checking to check they are still valid.
Many many people are still working this week.

If your role can not be done from.home then the employer will need to justify why. Checkout worker, very clear cant be done at home. Employer gives employee letter to show. Distribution lorry driver cant be done from home employer gives employee letter.
Admin role which previously was done via work from home can likely be done from home again so employee should facilitate this. Or be able to explain why this isnt feasible.
Employee unable to work from home due to health, or resource issue should discuss with employer so this can be evidenced in HR and then they also will have a letter to carry.

But where legal sanctions are involved, there has to be a detailed, legal definition of all this. What if the employer says that employees' productivity had been poor WFH? Or that everyone needs to be present for a sensitive face-to-face meeting that day? Or if your laptop has suddenly stopped working and you need to go to the office?

There are so many variables. You can't just fine people because in your opinion, they 'could' WFH. And rushing this through less than a week before Christmas, when many workplaces have already shut, just adds to the daftness.

If employees could get fined too they aare far more likely to challange a employer who has not arranged work from home to either give them the evidence they need or to allow wfh.

But what 'evidence' is acceptable? Where can an employee find information about this?

@Covidworries

If employees could get fined too they aare far more likely to challange a employer who has not arranged work from home to either give them the evidence they need or to allow wfh.

Plans should already be in place from previous lockdowns. I know the letters given out previous lockdowns are still on work systems. As are risk assessments etc.
They just need checking to check they are still valid.
Many many people are still working this week.

Clearly no one has changed job or role or moved house or had deteriorating health or the work has changed in scale / scope / complexity.

That never happens. They are asking the impossible for all that to be sorted by a limited number of staff in 2 days. Equipment has to be ordered or arranged to be shipped to staff. There is a severe shortage of equipment, I've been waiting 2 months for a riser and docking station, no screens to be had for love nor money.

It might make a few employees think again. But the logistics are overwhelming and I doubt the definition of WFH is watertight.

@VikingVolva

If they're doing this now, then something has really rattled them

What have they seen that the public haven't?

Or is the Welsh government a bunch of totalitarian control freaks?

Yes to your last question. We can't watch grassroots football from the 27th December but can go to theatres and cinemas. Welsh teams can't play each other in front of crowds but can play in England in front of crowds.

Fucking idiots.

It is a ridiculous ill thought out policy, we've got BJ who is so laid back he is upside down (explains the hair) but trying to please everyone whilst using the word 'but' a lot. Then you have NS and MD coming out with lots of new rules that are often unclear and illogical.

Our little tag rugby players now can't have a parent on the sidelines, tell me how the coach is expected to care for them all. But parents can sit in the clubhouse and have a drink.

Bloody nuts

When I come across this sort of shit it suddenly makes the conspiracy theorists sound less mad, that is not a good thing!!

Jeez this man is batshit

I can't work from a kitchen chair, fucked my back before. I had an office chair but it went back to my previous employee in March when I changed jobs. Are they expecting me to transport my own equipment home? Why should I put my back at risk lugging chairs around? We employ professional movers for our office moves for a bloody good reason.

*I don't live in Wales, but the above are all examples of things employers will need to consider.

Fuck I keep mixing up employer and employee. Apologies. It's late

I think the company fine is a good idea. It means that your boss can’t force you to come to work in the middle of a pandemic, as long as you can reasonably work from home.

as long as you can reasonably work from home.

Where is the definition for this though?

@blinder

I think the company fine is a good idea. It means that your boss can’t force you to come to work in the middle of a pandemic, as long as you can reasonably work from home.

But who decides what's reasonable and what are the deciding parameters?

I can reasonably wfh in theory but it messes with my mh and productivity. Making it a legal offence is a complete waste of police and court time as well as public money. You couldn't write it.

Sports rules are crazy too. How many people have caught covid watching their kids kick a ball around a field? Surely it has so little impact it's a complete waste of time to criminalise this.

Overreaching now? They’ve been overreaching for a while.

@bumbleymummy

Overreaching now? They’ve been overreaching for a while.

My heart sank when he got another few hundred million from Westminster to 'deal with omnicron'. Imagine the difference that money could make if we invested it in improving housing stock and community spaces. It would be a long term massive boost to health

I think this is good and they should bring it in everywhere,albeit it should be employers not employees fined imo . So many employers who enabled their staff to work from homes last lockdown suddenly can't facilitate this this time.

Yep. All that money being used to keep businesses afloat that are struggling because of ridiculous restrictions that aren’t actually reducing cases/hospitalisations. It could be invested directly into policies that could improve health and sort out community care (so that people can actually be discharged from hospital!) that would have a much bigger impact on the NHS. It’s completely insane when you think about it.

Pp to GiveMe

Here on the SE Wales border, the police spent a few weeks half-heartedly stopping random drivers crossing the border, during the second lockdown. I think it was the second lockdown because it was a time when Wales and England played tag-team lockdown with one another and I was having to cross the border into Wales for the school run.
They just didn’t have the resource to manage it and were easily outwitted, even when the English police joined in because there are so many side routes, back roads etc. This is another yet another unmanageable plan.
Oh well, @justasking111…..at least he’s given us Welsh mumsnetters something new to talk about. Perhaps we should open a book on what his next move will be? Maybe closing pubs forever, as alcohol can cause people to have fun? Or closing churches, to prevent worship of anything other than Welsh Labour? Certainly the prevention of the purchase of non essential colouring books or tin openers, as they are clearly morally bankrupt?

@bumbleymummy

Pp to GiveMe

Investing in care would make a massive difference. Half the beds in my local hospital are being used by people who could be discharged but are waiting for a care package. Can you imagine what a better position we'd be in if we could release those beds?