Welsh government overreaching now fines for working

[justasking111]

Well this has caused dismay you must try to work from home your employer must enable this from Monday, your vehicle stopped £60 fine, employer 1k fine.

You'll be fined if you live in Wales but work in England

Won't companies need to provide laptops, I worked from home but on my own computer, through a portal, not everyone worked from home though. Some people only use phones and don't own laptops, it would be quite difficult to work on a phone all day if a company didn't provide a laptop

Honestly can't believe how batshit this is. Also wild to fine the employees not the employer (if the employer is actually facilitating working from home and someone is going in, it's probably for good reason ie their mental health is really suffering being at home- yep pop a fine on); and of course those who are having to go in because their employer won't provide the correct equipment or has decided not to allow it, cool your employer sucks so let's fine you. MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

Completely batshit crazy.

The knock on effect it will have is huge too. Taxi drivers, cafés, newsagents, small businesses... all who will have no business because he's trying to force everyone to work from home. Is there a financial package in place?

It's honestly quite frightening, and won't make a singular jot of difference either.

People only have to say they have mental health issues and cannot work from home as a result.

Drakeford is an airhead.

The usual punitive measures that affect those most who can least afford it.

I think this is the right approach. DH's employer insisted they all go in to the office (after plan B measures came in) despite the fact they can work perfectly well from home and have all the equipment etc. He caught covid from the person who sits next to him and has now passed it on to the entire family including my brother who is CEV. I'm so angry, we all now have to miss christmas family dinner and are feeling very poorly so this could end up with one of us hospitalised - all because of a vanity project by bosses who believe in presenteeism

@mrtumblesspottybg

I think this is the right approach. DH's employer insisted they all go in to the office (after plan B measures came in) despite the fact they can work perfectly well from home and have all the equipment etc. He caught covid from the person who sits next to him and has now passed it on to the entire family including my brother who is CEV. I'm so angry, we all now have to miss christmas family dinner and are feeling very poorly so this could end up with one of us hospitalised - all because of a vanity project by bosses who believe in presenteeism

Well yes but in this scenario your DP would have been fined for going in and not the employer for forcing him to.

There is a large fine for employers. WFH if you can has been the policy in Wales all through the pandemic. Most people I know who worked from home in March 2020 are still working from home so are all set up to do so. BUT some companies are putting pressure on employees to get back to the office, I think some bosses like to see people working!

Wfh is not the big saviour some think it is.

My work never did full on wfh as it's difficult to do our jobs full time wfh. And anytime I have, I hate it. I would opt to be in the office for my own welfare if I could.

Fining employees though is just nuts. They are not the ones with the choice.

Police have got enough to do without enforcing the unenforceable.

Drakeford is clinically insane, with a frightening lack of understanding of how the world works. This new rule is bonkers!!!

@BritWifeInUSA yes true. The people who can fight their corner and push for WFH are those on higher wages.

In general, Drakeford has managed things well. But the closing off of so-called non-essential aisles in supermarkets was nothing short of batshit. Supposedly to protect independent non-essential shops which had to close - did he really think we were going to wait til they reopened to buy our books or clothes? All we did was line Bezos’s pocket even more.

And this. Well, I don’t have the words. I think he’s completely lost the plot. He doesn’t even have the justification of the sheer numbers of very ill people any more, this isn’t 2020. We have vaccines now.

I was only saying to Dsis yesterday, that they need to re-examine isolation rules if they want to ease the pressure on the NHS because of staff isolating. Lo and behold the English govt do this. Quite why Drakeford hasn’t looked at this I don’t know. I’m starting to think he’s enjoying this.

@Covidworries

Its from monday. So gives conoanies time to arrange. Its to ensure all those who can work from home do. If you cant tou will be given a letter to show if stopped. Not disimular to the other lockdowns where key workers needed a letter. I really doubt anyonenwill be able to go shopping at chester then either. Lots of places are going to be closed soon. No one wants lockdown including the governments. But of they are locking down it is for a reason and needed

Bollocks is it. If your that worried about Covid still then feel free to stay home but neither you or anyone else is inflicting that decision on me when I have been triple vaccinated and am tested every day near enough. Think what you like about that, I am beyond caring.

I assume this is to stop people crossing the border to work (as I don't see how they can fine English companies). Utterly nuts though, and what's it going to achieve? Most people would rather pay the fine than lose their jobs (and will assume they're unlikely to be caught anyway - probably correctly).

And who decides what's reasonable? Is it reasonable if your partner's looking after a toddler in the living room, and you'd have to work in there? Is it reasonable if working on the dining room table strains your back and neck? Is it reasonable if your internet is too slow to do video calls? Is it reasonable if you deal with confidential information and your housemate is nosy and a massive gossip? Is it reasonable if extensive experience shows your team gets more done if you're all sitting in the same room?

Meanwhile CEV workers who can't work from home still have to go in or lose their jobs. We urgently need to give them options. But no, let's concentrate on making an arbitrary group stay home.

I completely disagree Drakeford has managed things well. People discharged into care homes without testing, hospital spread and lack of ppe were inexcusable. Schools have been shut longer, pubs opened before parks. We have no idea whether restrictions worked and what the long term impact would be. The gaps in society have widened, people are sicker and poorer. The money spent on covid should have been invested in the things that improve health and care to set us up for the future. Instead it's gone and we have stored up massive problems with austerity around the corner. That costs so many lives but no one seems to care

There’s been some real overreaching going on in Wales throughout the pandemic. It’s not, as far as I’m aware, made Welsh case/hospitalisation/death rates any better than England. Same goes for Scotland.

Where is the definition for this though?

They don't need a definition. It's not practical to list out every situation where a person can or can't work from home. People have to use their common sense.

They idea that things have to be precisely defined to be legally valid is wrong. Laws can leave room for interpretation.

The rule can easily be people must work from home if they can. The Welsh Government can fine people who, in their view, clear can work from home but aren't. If people disagree with a decision, they can take it to court and see if a judge thinks they could have worked from home.

I disagree with the policy and the law may be invalid for other reasons but the system doesn't require a definition.

Drakeford is a puritan who is loving his chance to outlaw anything fun or worthwhile.

Wonder how much he'll like it when the welsh benefits bill is HUGE because everyone lost their jobs when they wfh against what their employer wanted.

I can wfh but I do a practical job with a high turnover of items being dropped and collected from the workplace. At Christmas the volume and the speed that work is required is much higher, it wouldn't functioning we all wfh. During quiet periods it is possible to wfh but one or more people are needed all the time in a physical workplace.

It is bizarre. Many people do not have the space at home to work properly, or the appropriate desk and chair.
One of my son's friends was having to do his work in bed, as he lived in a house share, and his room did not even have space for a proper desk.
My youngest son was (for a short while), living in a 1 bedroom flat, with no outside space, and with 2 young children, and went into the office, as that was the only place to work properly.
Sounds as though, one can go to the pub, so I think a bit OTT.

@buffyajp

So if hospitals become over whelmed you will quite happy not have medical assistance for any reason. RTC, heart attack, fall etc.
Im already taking as many precautions as possible but im also aware that if someone needs hospital care for any reason, getting that care will depend on enough medical staff being able to work and there being capacity.
The risk with this varient is while everyone hopes people wont become sick enough to need care the spread is super fast and by the time enough data has been gathered to know for sure the spread will be high.

So while people are free to make own judgements, and ignore any regulations... this potentially isnt just putting themselves at risk but the whole of society.
Maybe those people would be happy not to use the hositals through and just suffer till recover or death at home.

At least drakeford is trying here. The shutting the non essential sections in shops was because independent shops were pissed that they were closed but people could still purchase those items in tesco. And while from a customer view point it kay be stupid, drakeford was trying to appease all the small buisnesses who couldnt open.
There is no easy answers ir perfect way to manage a pandemic.

@Covidworries

If employees could get fined too they aare far more likely to challange a employer who has not arranged work from home to either give them the evidence they need or to allow wfh.

Plans should already be in place from previous lockdowns. I know the letters given out previous lockdowns are still on work systems. As are risk assessments etc.
They just need checking to check they are still valid.
Many many people are still working this week.

Don't know where you live but few employees in Wales have that kind of clout. The unions don't agree with this anyway. They've a better grasp on reality

Plenty of people commute daily to Bristol from wales and never had issues at Dp's work, they have keyworker status anyway