Are we actually at risk of overwhelming the NHS?

[Whathefisgoingon]

Will it be like the news reports coming out of India in 2020?

Genuinely concerned and seething at the anti vax brigade this evening.

@Octavia174
NHSQuicker only covers the south west. I just downloaded it for it to tell me my closest location is Bristol - 135 miles away!

@Bohemond

We cannot fund the NHS at the level it needs for its current ‘mission’ indefinitely. As a society we need to have some difficult conversations about what ‘saving a life’ means and the quality of that life. Until we do this we will have the same conversation over and over again, covid or no covid. We seem to have forgotten that death is part of life. Prolonging a life just because we can, and I say that about all ages, from very premature babies to the very elderly, is not always the right thing.

We don't now and we never have. Decisions are made in the best interests of the patient.

Critical care is just a part of the NHS's role, most of which is "routine" treatments.

The bottom line, which is irrefutable, is that for decades (apart from the Blair era) we fund the NHS to a lower level than comparable EU nations.

@flashpaper apologies, is there not a similar app for your area? However, given that Covid is not as widespread outside of London, a 13 hour wait at Plymouth is pretty bad,

Interesting to see on Twitter (Chise, she's a reliable source but I couldn't copy the link for some reason) that out of the 169 covid cases in london area, 111 of them were in hospital for something else, and were just tested on admission and found to be covid positive. They'll still be in the figures as covid admissions though.

[quote Octavia174]@flashpaper apologies, is there not a similar app for your area? However, given that Covid is not as widespread outside of London, a 13 hour wait at Plymouth is pretty bad,[/quote]
No need to apologise. It made me laugh.

I had a look at my look health trusts waiting time. figures, capacity etc the other day. The figures for this year ending in November were bad however they were at the worst 4 years ago, pre pandemic. Several departments closed in the last 10 years too. The local population has a higher proportion of over 65’s too with demand for care being bad. Overwhelming of the NHS has been happening for years and will every year until it’s over hauled and many of us take better care of our health.

Yes. People will die unnecessarily of preventable things due to some idiots being unable to see the bigger picture and not complying with basic minor restrictions.

I can't get my head around that level of selfishness.

[quote Sowhatifiam]@MauveMavis

For what it’s worth, thank you for your continued service. I hope you and your colleagues are able to manage whatever it is that is on it’s way with both your mental and physical health intact.

Can you tell us how we can help? what could we do that might make a difference to you and the thousands of professionals up and down the country? Staying in? Volunteering? Checking on neighbours? Can we make any kind of difference as worried but willing individuals?[/quote]
I wish there was a huge recruitment drive from carers and HCAs - these can be trained fairly quickly and are the backbone of health and social care. We need people to want to do these roles (obviously it would be great if the pay was better).

If we don't get more staff, they might have to do some sort of national service to make people take these roles on! (Joking obviously)

@tangyandsalty

Interesting to see on Twitter (Chise, she's a reliable source but I couldn't copy the link for some reason) that out of the 169 covid cases in london area, 111 of them were in hospital for something else, and were just tested on admission and found to be covid positive. They'll still be in the figures as covid admissions though.

Interesting! It’s worrying that it’s rife in hospitals again. It’ll lead to increased staff shortages and patients who are already medically compromised getting Covid and thus, needing more intensive and longer hospital stays. That’ll put pressure on the NHS.

Yes - I think an underfunded NHS is part of the problem. However - globally - or in Europe - is our NHS significantly worse off than other countries - or are they facing the same issues?

I do think those who are anti-science, or anti the vaccine, or ignoring restrictions are a significant issue too. I think we DO need to take responsibility for our personal health - and not just blame the government, however rubbish they are. After all WE (not me personally) voted to put them in power. And I’m grateful that Corbyn hasn’t been our leader through this, which would have been the alternative.

Yes. Not necessarily because people are in hospital because of Covid, but because they are there with Covid (which requires them to be cared for in isolation and needs extra time for staff to don and doff PPE each time they see to them), and also because of staff shortages where huge numbers of NHS staff are off sick and isolating.
My DFriend had a baby on Monday. She was booked for an elective caesarean next week, but her waters broke at home last Sunday. She went to hospital and they prepared her for theatre. Due to severe staff shortages and more urgent cases being prioritised, it was 14 hours before she got a theatre slot and she began contracting during the day.
She was very scared as she'd been warned of all the risks to her with a vaginal delivery, hence choosing the elective CSection for medical reasons. She was also in a lot of pain and there was no anaesthetist available to do an epidural during labour as the only anaesthetist in the department was working in theatre.
All staff shortages in this case were due to Covid. They normally run two obstetric theatres but could only run one on this day. Luckily it was ok for her as the baby was doing ok, but if there been two cases where babies were in distress etc., one would had to have waited and the outcome doesn't bear thinking about.

Yes. The NHSis overwhelmed this time of year anyway with flu, pneumonia etc.
Just add in another serious condition and it's broken the already struggling NHS.

@bigvig your post doesn’t make sense. It’s not just our government who are vaccinating their country. It’s a global response based on the World Health Organisation designating Omicron a variant of concern. Every country worldwide is vaccinating it’s citizens.

@tangyandsalty

Interesting to see on Twitter (Chise, she's a reliable source but I couldn't copy the link for some reason) that out of the 169 covid cases in london area, 111 of them were in hospital for something else, and were just tested on admission and found to be covid positive. They'll still be in the figures as covid admissions though.

Covid denial alert

@stormyalphabet

Yes. The NHSis overwhelmed this time of year anyway with flu, pneumonia etc. Just add in another serious condition and it's broken the already struggling NHS.

Well flu hasn't reappeared yet ditto pneumonia for the second winter running according to public health. It was the same in Australia this summer they're not sure why, whether it's masks and other covid precautions, or the big uptake in flu pneumonia vaccines. But the government warnings haven't come to pass yet

Yes. Even if Omicron is less severe thank previous variants, it spreads so much faster that, at any one time, there could still be large numbers in hospital.

IN Wales our public health statistics show that 27% of covid cases are hospital acquired @rrhuth . It's unavoidable

@skintasabint

The NHS is on its knees every winter. Bed blockers don't help, neither does the numerous managers that are not needed!

The amount of elderly that are dumped and left on wards over Christmas is diabolical.

The NHS needs managing, and managing well.... I'm not saying managers necessarily always do a good job, but it's naive to think the NHS will run itself, and the infrastructure and logistics required to manage a health service (or anything for that matter) happens magically.

It is overwhelmed every winter.

I would certainly support tax cuts and a right to opt out of the NHS - eg 20% of everyone's income tax bill goes on the NHS. If they let us opt out and not pay that tax that might help. We could also exclude anyone overweight from NHS care and anyone like I am who is unvaccinated.

@justasking111

IN Wales our public health statistics show that 27% of covid cases are hospital acquired *@rrhuth* . It's unavoidable

That's not my point.

People try to pick at the figures to imply the situation is not as bad as the figures suggest. The situation is basically as bad as the figures suggest.

Of course there will be hospital acquired infection, because covid is out of control across the UK (and also why 'shield the vulnerable' is a crock of shit).

The biggest problem in my work is the long isolation periods. Staff have to be off for 10 days when they have covid even though only one person has felt ill for longer than 4-5 days and most have only had cold symptoms. We also have staff regularly off while they wait for pcr results and other staff off because their children have to isolate for 10 days. I realise nhs staff can’t work while they are infectious but I don’t see how there ever would be enough staff to keep it functioning with omicron so infectious.

Our neighbor triple jabbed tested positive felt absolutely fine just a slight cough. He thinks it's overkill the ten days isolation no-one else in the family caught it

@Xenia

It is overwhelmed every winter.

I would certainly support tax cuts and a right to opt out of the NHS - eg 20% of everyone's income tax bill goes on the NHS. If they let us opt out and not pay that tax that might help. We could also exclude anyone overweight from NHS care and anyone like I am who is unvaccinated.

Bloody hell. So there you are, splatted into the dashboard of your car and because you have opted out, you stay there? Or AE, x-ray dept, surgeons etc patch you up for nothing?

Its overwhelmed every winter because people like you vote for possibly the worst health service in Europe.

@Grida

The biggest problem in my work is the long isolation periods. Staff have to be off for 10 days when they have covid even though only one person has felt ill for longer than 4-5 days and most have only had cold symptoms. We also have staff regularly off while they wait for pcr results and other staff off because their children have to isolate for 10 days. I realise nhs staff can’t work while they are infectious but I don’t see how there ever would be enough staff to keep it functioning with omicron so infectious.

This is a major problem of neither previous infection nor vaccine preventing infection from Omicron - a nurse clearly can't ignore covid and spread it on the wards, so staff isolation will be a huge issue.

Higher circulating rates mean more nurses will catch it, so changing/ending isolation for everyone else will just make things worse inside the NHS.

'Vaccines only' was never going to be sufficient if there was a bad variant, Johnson lied instead of preparing, now we have to live through the mess

All that bullshit about 'living with it' - this is what that meant

@justasking111

Our neighbor triple jabbed tested positive felt absolutely fine just a slight cough. He thinks it's overkill the ten days isolation no-one else in the family caught it

Quick, tell them to ring Chris Whitty so the nation can benefit from his expert epidemiological knowledge based on one case