Would you comply.. Yes or no? Circuit breaker or whatever they'll decide to turn it into.

[MarmitesMyMate]

No explanation needed. Just a yes or no.

For me it's a hard NO.

"It’s terrible and amazing how many people are happy to harm others directly or I directly even their families."

Society as a whole has never given a shit about the most vulnerable. I don't understand why you think individual members of society are going to think any differently about this particular situation when suddenly a particular type of vulnerable are supposed to matter.

If you think it’s selfish to want to see loved ones.
If you think Christmas is just a ‘mince pie’ then I feel sorry for you and frankly your views are pointless.

We know Boris doesn’t care about actual deaths. He’s said about letting the bodies pile up. If there is a lockdown, it will be to keep the country going. To stop everyone catching it at exactly the same time. To keep enough doctors, nurses, paramedics, lorry drivers, energy supply workers, supermarket workers, bin collectors, teachers etc, so that society itself, doesn’t breakdown.

It’s not about the numbers of deaths.

[quote Cascascascas]@MarmitesMyMate

Amazed at the people saying no.
Basically what you are saying is if one of my family is seriously ill with anything, Covid, long Covid or dies due to anything. I am happy with that guilt.

Amazing!![/quote]
What I am saying is that my daughter is far more likely to take suicidal actions if she is locked down again. So, for my family and many others, lockdown is a far more serious and immediate risk than covid.

Not seeing fully vaxxed and boosted children and grandchild, firm No, will not comply.

Everything else, yes

No

And does anyone really think- my child is dangerously unwell with anorexia / mental health issues etc as a result of the last lockdowns but for Christmas I’m going to leave them alone knowing it will cause their condition to worsen because that’s the “unselfish “ thing to do due to the tiny chance that one of us has covid and infects the other one and then spreads it to one of the tiny percentage of people who remain at serious risk from it. I think that’s very cold parenting if so.

These sorts of mental health issues aren’t niche anymore.

stepmum

I truly feel for you and your daughter and hope you get through this.

Absolutely not.

So, what's to stop this from happening again next winter? Obviously not vaccines.

[quote Cascascascas]@DolphinFC

It’s terrible and amazing how many people are happy to harm others directly or I directly even their families.

I will get hit for this on here but that further shows their ignorance and lack of scientific ethical and public health data understanding.

All so they can have a mince pie.[/quote]
All so they can have a mince pie??? Are you off your head? After everything you've read on this thread (is you've even bothered to read it that is), your takeaway is that? You've minimised people's very real lives and suffering to a mince pie? Shame on you.

I'm just reading about the countless HCPs who'll be quitting their jobs when the vaccine mandate comes in next year. 40 midwives in one maternity unit. By some of your standards those people you clapped for last year are now the enemy 'the unvaxxed' and 'selfish' too, no doubt, after working under ridiculous conditions for YOU.

The vaccine mandate is what will bring the NHS to its knees, not extra patients or staff off ill. If 40 midwives down tools and quit all in one go, do you think there'll be 40 more fully trained waiting to step into their shoes? No.

The government have killed the NHS over years of neglect, not covid. And they're further putting a nail in its coffin with vaccine mandates.

But yes, you carry on bashing people for wanting to see loved ones and diminish their lives to a mince pie.

As you were. This thread is littered with lunatics.

*It’s terrible and amazing how many people are happy to harm others directly or I directly even their families.

I will get hit for this on here but that further shows their ignorance and lack of scientific ethical and public health data understanding.

All so they can have a mince pie.

All so they can have a mince pie??? Are you off your head? After everything you've read on this thread (is you've even bothered to read it that is), your takeaway is that? You've minimised people's very real lives and suffering to a mince pie? Shame on you.*

I agree, shame on you. It's an even more stupid post when you consider that mince pies will still be accessible in a lockdown.

I too wonder what will happen next winter to avoid more of the same.

Are we just crossing our fingers and hoping there won’t be any new variants?

@steppemum

I do agree with you that we need to get to a place as quickly as possible where young people can enjoy life though.

talk about spectacularly missing the point.

I was replying to a poster who said we were all selfish and not thinking of the welfare of others if we were not wanting a lockdown. She suggested that it was all for the sake of a mince pie.

You now suggest that our young people need to 'enjoy' life.

I am talking about 2 young people, one of whom who has severe anorexia, both were suicidal during last lockdowns, with no mental health services available, kids who are at breaking point, who have struggled with schooling and are now months/years behind.

Not about 'enjoying life'

I am fully aware that the lockdowns are primarily to support NHS. But individuals on this thread are basically saying - you are selfish because without lockdown I might die.
I am just pointing out that other people might die if we DO have lockdowns. It is not selfish to be concerned about the other side.
As I said it is a catch 22 really.

and to be honest, I really don't think we should make any decision that protect the unvaccinated. They have made their choice

Well, if not locking down and tolerating the consequences could reverse all the effects of the past couple of years, maybe anything would be worth that. But being in a situation where we have no emergency services might just make the trauma worse for some of our young people.

I have kids at school myself and I want them to have a life again. I mean that is what we all want for them isn't it? It's not missing the point at all. It IS the point.

We had to cancel a MH / developmental assessment for my teen last week because their sibling had covid, so we have some experience of some related issues here.

I also want regular health services open for the sake of the children as well (we are awaiting other appointments too for DC)

It might be that we need to act to protect society for everyone, including for them- and that might be the best thing all round.

It might be that action to manage case numbers at this point would protect the re-opening of schools (I figure that you also want that, as I do).

Having said that, I'll be very pleased if this can be managed without locking down.

I honestly can't understand the argument that covid lockdown caused more trauma than covid. The trauma that would have been caused without lockdown is something I don't think we can comprehend. The NHS would have crumbled, people would be in crisis from fear, bereavement and Ill health rather than crisis from isolation. There would be significantly more shutting down of services as after the devastation seen people would opt to isolate and stay away out of fear, and many would have to close due to ill health and death (not just covid death). This isnt hysteria, look at history of viruses running rampant with no migrations in place. Its complete devastation.

Also, I dont understand how people say lockdown didnt work. It didn't stop covid, but 100% slowed the spread.

yes, mainly because there is really nowhere I cba to go in the first 2 weeks of Jan anyway and it's zero hardship for me to just stay in, wfh during the day as I have been for years anyway then snuggle up with blanket book/TV in the evening. Its pretty much what I would be doing early Jan anyway.

I do think they shouldn't mess with schools though, kids have been impacted enough. Make them wear masks and do daily lat flows with some sort of proof system (send photos to form teacher or whatever) but don't close the schools.

It seems like 'every man for himself' view amongst a lot of posters is because, for them, the harms of lockdown are far worse than the alternative (esp with many think catching covid would hardly affect them) but as others have said, it's not just covid itself, but the breakdown of essential services that is at risk due to the speed omicron spreads at.

Quite honestly yes that’s exactly what I’m thinking. Certainly very limited assistance and help is available should I require mental health care so yes yes I am trying to prioritise myself in terms of that as a result. It’s far far more likely to affect me badly than covid.

There is something in between doing that and being sensible in regard to contacts and going to a massive illegal race every Friday and Saturday because you don’t give a shit.

It is possible to take sensible precautions and still prioritise yourself. It’s just not definitely going to be 100% in line with government policy.

@Mreggsworth

I honestly can't understand the argument that covid lockdown caused more trauma than covid. The trauma that would have been caused without lockdown is something I don't think we can comprehend. The NHS would have crumbled, people would be in crisis from fear, bereavement and Ill health rather than crisis from isolation. There would be significantly more shutting down of services as after the devastation seen people would opt to isolate and stay away out of fear, and many would have to close due to ill health and death (not just covid death). This isnt hysteria, look at history of viruses running rampant with no migrations in place. Its complete devastation.

Also, I dont understand how people say lockdown didnt work. It didn't stop covid, but 100% slowed the spread.

You misunderstand - initially yes, as you say, though there were awful consequences and it doesn’t help to minimise. But you must realise that there is a point (and we may not have reached it yet, or maybe we have) that the “trauma” of lockdown (your word) causes more problems on a wider scale than not locking down. I repeat that I don’t have the answers - but all options now have huge negative consequences and views vary as to which will be worse from the point where we are now

No. Now is the time to stand up together.

& give each other covid?

Everyone is going to get it who hasn't already

But if they get it all at once then health and emergency services would;d be overwhelmed and that would be really bad,

The vast majority have some immunity, it isn't March 2020