Anti vaxx and cult like behaviours

[Newrunner29]

Ive been thinking about this i will say first i dont believe everyone who is 'anti vaxx' is nessassry in a cult. But ive been reading about anti vaxx movement using cult like behaviours and it makes sense. Giving people a sense of belonging, making them feel special, they are the select few who have the 'real knowlege' everyone else is the sheep etc. It must feel so enticing and with everything being so unpredictable with rising cases and worries of restrictions, to have something like this must gave a sense of stability. I do believe some anti vaxx people are 100% using cult tatics to get people on to the anti vax side. And also someone who doesnt believe they are in cult but desperately trying to convince people to join might be using cult tatics without even knowing it.
But obviously everyone who is anti vaxx isnt going to believe or even consider they r in cult or have been brainwashed or fed propaganda. Also what is the chance trolls are trolling people with purposely misinformation and disinformation to destabilise society to not take vaccine , like cyper attacking because obviously the less people vaccinated the longer this goes on.
But how would people even know?

When i say trolling people i literally mean using cult like tatics to provent them getting vaccine. Social media makes it incrediblely easy

I’m triple jabbed but I think I sort of get it. A loved one who is otherwise very intelligent and sensible has refused to be vaxxed. For the first time I can see their position and respect it whereas for all other vaccines I thought refusers were thicket dickheads.

@Shuffleuplove

I’m triple jabbed but I think I sort of get it. A loved one who is otherwise very intelligent and sensible has refused to be vaxxed. For the first time I can see their position and respect it whereas for all other vaccines I thought refusers were thicket dickheads.

What is their reasoning?

Like i said not everyone is. However Intelligent and sensible people join cults all the time. I say this about all anti vaxx not just covid obviously this one is on topic and very important at moment.

My brother is very much like this. A doctor can tell him one thing but if a you tube video says different then he believes the video, every time. All of his family are vaccinated and none of us have turned into robots or dropped dead yet but still he belives all of the crazy conspiracies. With him I think its very much that he is a 40 year old rebel who just doesn't like being told to do something (he can't hold down a job for the same reason - despite being highly qualified).

I think there is also a very big problem right now in that the anti vaxxers said that the vaccines wouldn't stop restrictions and it has turned out that they were right about that one so now they feel vindicated.

I'm not anti vax but I find the zero covid lot far more tiresome. It's not just wearing the costume and having the jabs, you have to do it with enthusiasm and judge everyone who doesn't adhere to a random 2m distance or refuse to see loved ones. It's even got its own language and liturgy of stay safe, stay at home, mask up... I'd rather stay sane thank you very much

Some of the antivax reasons the shower fuckwits phoning in on LBC over the last week are depressing as they are stupid.

@GiveMeNovocain

I'm not anti vax but I find the zero covid lot far more tiresome. It's not just wearing the costume and having the jabs, you have to do it with enthusiasm and judge everyone who doesn't adhere to a random 2m distance or refuse to see loved ones. It's even got its own language and liturgy of stay safe, stay at home, mask up... I'd rather stay sane thank you very much

Im not sure how this relates to my OP at all at no point have i said they r tiresome, i dont feel angry or annoyed they t in a cult as i wouldnt with any other cult , i find it worrying cult tatics are used and feel sad for the people stuck in it

Ok. I find the zero covid lot far more like a cult than anti vaxxers. Is that better?

@GiveMeNovocain

Ok. I find the zero covid lot far more like a cult than anti vaxxers. Is that better?

who is pushing for zero covid?

I think most credible epidemiologists are just calling for attempts to slow the incoming wave whilst getting as many people boosted as possible.

Im not sure how this relates to my OP at all at no point have i said they r tiresome

It's called a conversation or debate, you started a thread people discuss it.....you don't get to control what people post from here on in

More ‘Hive minded’ than cult like. They are very good along with the anti lockdown brigade at persistently conveying their message because it’s a strong belief they have and a cause they’re intent on fighting for.

You only have to read the Covid threads to see how they work, although there’s plenty of social media and MN users who are paid to sway public perception and influence people by persuasive posts. Bot farms are a real thing and can really make their message echo with fake accounts on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, MN, Reddit etc.

MN users who are paid to sway public perception and influence people by persuasive posts.

Do you have evidence for this @Thewiseoneincognito?

It's something I have long suspected based on some of the late night posts that crop up (and the persistance of some posters!) but wasn't sure if it was a crazy thought..

@GiveMeNovocain

Ok. I find the zero covid lot far more like a cult than anti vaxxers. Is that better?

yes , i understand but dont agree, the 'following the goverment' people they might not be just following the goverment they also are aware of the need to try and provent cases spreading. They just have the same thinking of goverment . The anti vaxx who premise is floored because vaccines do work we dont have a lot of nasty diseases due to vaccinations programs. Yes their are possible side effects but same with medical drugs but dont hear much about that. Also about calculated risk? If million people are potentially saved from having to go into hospital and 50 unfortunately get various side effects. It still helps 999,950 people so its obviously better than potentially having 1 million people in hospital

@Lorriestakingppe

Im not sure how this relates to my OP at all at no point have i said they r tiresome

It's called a conversation or debate, you started a thread people discuss it.....you don't get to control what people post from here on in

The person explained what they meant so my point still stands.

OP, Do you categorise a fit healthy 20 year old who hasn't been vaxxed as being part of the same 'cult' as a 70 year old clinically vulnerable unvaccinated person? You do realise that of the millions of people who have chosen not to be vaccinated their will be a huge variety of reasons for not doing so.

I'm not vaccinated. I am young, fit and healthy and have been massively exposed to covid pre vaccines beginning available, with no problems, due to my job. Unfortunately I have a past history of immune thrombocytopenia, the process which predisposes to the clotting risk associated with covid vaccines. On balance I decided to wait for more information to become available on this condition in relation to covid vaccines. A study was published in November and based on that I have decided at this time to remain unvaccinated.

I'm not sure this fits very well with your 'cult' theory OP.

@Thewiseoneincognito

More ‘Hive minded’ than cult like. They are very good along with the anti lockdown brigade at persistently conveying their message because it’s a strong belief they have and a cause they’re intent on fighting for.

You only have to read the Covid threads to see how they work, although there’s plenty of social media and MN users who are paid to sway public perception and influence people by persuasive posts. Bot farms are a real thing and can really make their message echo with fake accounts on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, MN, Reddit etc.

I know bot farms are real and on twitter and fb not sure on mn.

@EgonSpengler2020

OP, Do you categorise a fit healthy 20 year old who hasn't been vaxxed as being part of the same 'cult' as a 70 year old clinically vulnerable unvaccinated person? You do realise that of the millions of people who have chosen not to be vaccinated their will be a huge variety of reasons for not doing so.

I'm not vaccinated. I am young, fit and healthy and have been massively exposed to covid pre vaccines beginning available, with no problems, due to my job. Unfortunately I have a past history of immune thrombocytopenia, the process which predisposes to the clotting risk associated with covid vaccines. On balance I decided to wait for more information to become available on this condition in relation to covid vaccines. A study was published in November and based on that I have decided at this time to remain unvaccinated.

I'm not sure this fits very well with your 'cult' theory OP.

No one should be vaccinated if they don't want to, however I struggle with the claims that it is evidence based.

For your "fit 20 year old" example, it has still been demonstrated that statistically vaccination is associated with better outcomes than remaining unvaccinated, for the individual. This is on top of the societal level benefits, although I agree that shouldn't necessarily inform decision making.

Of course for someone like yourself, for whom vaccination may be contraindicated, it makes sense to remain unvaccinated. But this is a tiny proportion of the people who currently have not taken up the option.

@EgonSpengler2020

OP, Do you categorise a fit healthy 20 year old who hasn't been vaxxed as being part of the same 'cult' as a 70 year old clinically vulnerable unvaccinated person? You do realise that of the millions of people who have chosen not to be vaccinated their will be a huge variety of reasons for not doing so.

I'm not vaccinated. I am young, fit and healthy and have been massively exposed to covid pre vaccines beginning available, with no problems, due to my job. Unfortunately I have a past history of immune thrombocytopenia, the process which predisposes to the clotting risk associated with covid vaccines. On balance I decided to wait for more information to become available on this condition in relation to covid vaccines. A study was published in November and based on that I have decided at this time to remain unvaccinated.

I'm not sure this fits very well with your 'cult' theory OP.

Like i said not everyone is in the cult. Having past medical issues relating to vaccine is clearly not the same as someone with no medical underlaying issues who is not having vaccine because they have been swayed by 'doing their own' research and habe gone down a fb or youtube rabbit hole. Being anti vaxx is bery specific. Not being able to or genuine concerns about vaccine due to issues is not same.

@EgonSpengler2020

OP, Do you categorise a fit healthy 20 year old who hasn't been vaxxed as being part of the same 'cult' as a 70 year old clinically vulnerable unvaccinated person? You do realise that of the millions of people who have chosen not to be vaccinated their will be a huge variety of reasons for not doing so.

I'm not vaccinated. I am young, fit and healthy and have been massively exposed to covid pre vaccines beginning available, with no problems, due to my job. Unfortunately I have a past history of immune thrombocytopenia, the process which predisposes to the clotting risk associated with covid vaccines. On balance I decided to wait for more information to become available on this condition in relation to covid vaccines. A study was published in November and based on that I have decided at this time to remain unvaccinated.

I'm not sure this fits very well with your 'cult' theory OP.

So you’re not anti vax then. Anti is opposed to and you aren’t opposed to it in general, just not for yourself at this time, because you are waiting for further scientific data.

There’s a big difference between caution and refusal to engage with evidence.

And by "societal level benefits" for the 20 year old example, I don't mean doing things for the greater good, or because you're protecting a stranger, I mean the indirect benefits of population level immunity, such as university education not being disrupted, continuing to work part time in a pub, not having routine care slowed down, having a hospital bed available if you develop appenditis etc.

So you’re not anti vax then. Anti is opposed to and you aren’t opposed to it in general, just not for yourself at this time, because you are waiting for further scientific data.

Logically this is correct but I've seen some posters on here describe people who are anti vaccine passport as 'Anti Vaxxers'... even if they have been triple jabbed themselves!

I think, much like cults, the anti-covid (actually anti-intervention imho) are susceptible because it generally tells them something they need to hear at the time and accepts them without questioning in a way that sparks uncomfortable feelings.

I find it interesting that in a fair few examples people wholeheartedly believe what they’re saying but aren’t interested in trying to reason anyone over to ‘their side’. For example, people who truly believe that there is a large threat in taking a vaccine. They’re not trying to warn people by and large and if they do engage it’s either to gloat that they think you’re in danger or minimise the whole situation.

It may be my own bias but I don’t really see that in reverse although signs are showing people are fed up of trying to patiently explain. For me it was a bit of a watershed moment when the data on vaccines vs omicron were released. Now it really does seem to be the case that vaccines only truly do protect the individual without effect on transmission I’m inclined to think people just have to accept the consequences of their choices. Unfortunately those consequences may lead us into tighter restrictions because of healthcare availability but I don’t think a large number give a shit about the abstract idea of the wider consequences of that.

I suppose it’s a ‘buckle up, good luck’ moment for me 🤷‍♀️

@riveted1

MN users who are paid to sway public perception and influence people by persuasive posts.

Do you have evidence for this @Thewiseoneincognito?

It's something I have long suspected based on some of the late night posts that crop up (and the persistance of some posters!) but wasn't sure if it was a crazy thought..

Poke one of them and see the vitriol you’ll get from the flames of hell their friends or colleagues other users will unleash on you. That’s usually enough evidence for me. 😏

Some are very subtle in their actions. You’ll notice those who regularly appear on threads as a motherly voice of reason, often agreeing with someone’s fears about lockdown or school closures and gently guide the narrative to suit their agenda. Dare offer an alternative opinion and you’ll be labelled hysterical or fear mongering.

Let’s also not forget the journalists who create and contribute to threads to test public opinion (hi to any of you reading this 🤗) MN is a great way to temperature test the mood of a large demographic.

I would love to know how many people read MN threads without contributing, it must be fairly significant to warrant their constant presence…

@Newrunner29

Ive been thinking about this i will say first i dont believe everyone who is 'anti vaxx' is nessassry in a cult. But ive been reading about anti vaxx movement using cult like behaviours and it makes sense. Giving people a sense of belonging, making them feel special, they are the select few who have the 'real knowlege' everyone else is the sheep etc. It must feel so enticing and with everything being so unpredictable with rising cases and worries of restrictions, to have something like this must gave a sense of stability. I do believe some anti vaxx people are 100% using cult tatics to get people on to the anti vax side. And also someone who doesnt believe they are in cult but desperately trying to convince people to join might be using cult tatics without even knowing it. But obviously everyone who is anti vaxx isnt going to believe or even consider they r in cult or have been brainwashed or fed propaganda. Also what is the chance trolls are trolling people with purposely misinformation and disinformation to destabilise society to not take vaccine , like cyper attacking because obviously the less people vaccinated the longer this goes on. But how would people even know?

You sound nuts