Anti vaxx and cult like behaviours

[Newrunner29]

Ive been thinking about this i will say first i dont believe everyone who is 'anti vaxx' is nessassry in a cult. But ive been reading about anti vaxx movement using cult like behaviours and it makes sense. Giving people a sense of belonging, making them feel special, they are the select few who have the 'real knowlege' everyone else is the sheep etc. It must feel so enticing and with everything being so unpredictable with rising cases and worries of restrictions, to have something like this must gave a sense of stability. I do believe some anti vaxx people are 100% using cult tatics to get people on to the anti vax side. And also someone who doesnt believe they are in cult but desperately trying to convince people to join might be using cult tatics without even knowing it.
But obviously everyone who is anti vaxx isnt going to believe or even consider they r in cult or have been brainwashed or fed propaganda. Also what is the chance trolls are trolling people with purposely misinformation and disinformation to destabilise society to not take vaccine , like cyper attacking because obviously the less people vaccinated the longer this goes on.
But how would people even know?

@ParadiseLaundry

So you’re not anti vax then. Anti is opposed to and you aren’t opposed to it in general, just not for yourself at this time, because you are waiting for further scientific data.

Logically this is correct but I've seen some posters on here describe people who are anti vaccine passport as 'Anti Vaxxers'... even if they have been triple jabbed themselves!

That does depend on how much you trust what people are saying. My rule of thumb on the internet is that 80% at least is complete bollocks especially if it’s coming from an unverified source trying to gain the upper hand. People can and will say anything to shut down a line of debate they feel they’re losing ground on. I don’t doubt there are real life people who hold the same opinions (I’ve not met them personally) but I don’t think you can draw many conclusions from online contributions.

Makes for interesting conversations but doesn’t really hold up as a reliable source to base your own opinions and actions on.

The irony of your post, OP. Why are people who are trusting every word about the vaccines and complying not seen as a cult with the government?

Some are very subtle in their actions. You’ll notice those who regularly appear on threads as a motherly voice of reason,

I see what you did there...

@Merrymerry2

The irony of your post, OP. Why are people who are trusting every word about the vaccines and complying not seen as a cult with the government?

U are assumming people r trusting every word

I know loads of people who haven't had even one covid vaccine. None of them come out with crazy conspiracy theories or appear to be brainwashed by any kind of cult. They just say that they are nervous about having it and not ready yet. They've had all other vaccines that they have needed and their kids are fully vaccinated etc so they are not anti vaxxers, they are just wary of the covid vaccines because they are new.

Not that you've said this op, but I see a lot of people using the term "anti vaxxers" to mean anyone that isn't fully vaccinated against covid and I think it shows a real lack of understanding. The "5g/Bill Gates/micro chip" conspiracy theorists are a PITA but I've yet to meet one in real life. I do think that they are a lot rarer than people believe.

I'm more concerned about the segregation tactics used for vaccinated and non vaccinated.

Because singling people out, and removing their liberty and rights due to a physical feature has always worked well in the past, no??

Ur also assumming that everyone who does comply are doing it solely for the goverment and not that they just happen to be of similar thinking

@riveted1 as a starting point en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_farm but it’s a pretty heavily documented phenomenon. It’s a tactic implicated in the trump/Clinton election campaign, brexit and Cambridge analytica and I think they found a lot of covid misinformation traced back to one man.

We’re in the days of cyber warfare and there is a value in general public disquiet and destabilising a country psychologically. Certainly for countries like Russia, sometimes their only aim is to get people riled. Look up the times their airforce have ‘buzzed’ ours or breeched airspace. It’s chest beating and a show of control/power.

Forgot to say I took a while to have my first covid vaccine because I was nervous about it but I've had two now and will have my booster when I'm eligible in January. I think that a lot of people will get them eventually but pressure and nastiness will make those who are a bit nervous of the vaccines more likely to question things and delve down the conspiracy theory rabbit holes.

[quote Cornettoninja]@riveted1 as a starting point en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_farm but it’s a pretty heavily documented phenomenon. It’s a tactic implicated in the trump/Clinton election campaign, brexit and Cambridge analytica and I think they found a lot of covid misinformation traced back to one man.

We’re in the days of cyber warfare and there is a value in general public disquiet and destabilising a country psychologically. Certainly for countries like Russia, sometimes their only aim is to get people riled. Look up the times their airforce have ‘buzzed’ ours or breeched airspace. It’s chest beating and a show of control/power.[/quote]
Yes definitely there's heaps of evidence for places like twitter & facebook, where misinformation can rapidly be shared and escalated

I guess I was specifically questioning whether there is evidence for this on MN also?

Very well said, @Newrunner29. You have put into words perfectly what I have been feeling but couldn't articulate

@KilmordenCastle

I know loads of people who haven't had even one covid vaccine. None of them come out with crazy conspiracy theories or appear to be brainwashed by any kind of cult. They just say that they are nervous about having it and not ready yet. They've had all other vaccines that they have needed and their kids are fully vaccinated etc so they are not anti vaxxers, they are just wary of the covid vaccines because they are new.

Not that you've said this op, but I see a lot of people using the term "anti vaxxers" to mean anyone that isn't fully vaccinated against covid and I think it shows a real lack of understanding. The "5g/Bill Gates/micro chip" conspiracy theorists are a PITA but I've yet to meet one in real life. I do think that they are a lot rarer than people believe.

Ive meet one in real.life outside doctors after my daughter had her mmr, my daughter was crying and i just casually mentioned she has had her vaccine and the woman went on rant about how awful it was and she was happy she wasnt vaccinating her child. They are clearly on mn u see them in most covid posts and same people too.

@hohohooooo

Very well said, *@Newrunner29*. You have put into words perfectly what I have been feeling but couldn't articulate

Im dyslexic and i always worry im rubbish at expressing myself , so ill take it as complement 😆

@GiveMeNovocain

Ok. I find the zero covid lot far more like a cult than anti vaxxers. Is that better?

I agree!

@riveted1 I suppose only by forensically examining every MN account would that ever be proven, until then it’s purely conjecture. Just don’t dismiss it simply because there’s no hard evidence.

It would certainly be in the interests of a few organisations to have a working presence on a very popular forum based website aimed at parents, especially in a time of uncertainty.

Fair question @riveted1. I suspect it would be really hard to gather information without backend data but honestly I would be shocked if there wasn’t. Look at the number of threads lifted from MN for msm. It’s a well known and trafficked website that’s easy enough to participate in. In fact I would argue they make it too easy; whilst I understand anonymity is important to the users here, name changing without any links leads to lack of accountability and the inability for posters to use other information to deduce the likelihood that they’re talking to someone in good faith.

For instance, Reddit, Twitter and Facebook accounts with history can be sold for a fair amount of money to troll farms and marketing companies. MN doesn’t make users build up that history but at the same time removes a tool that people can use for their own verification.

If the good old fashioned trolls we all know and love can get on then I’m sure a government backed organisation can too.

[quote Thewiseoneincognito]@riveted1 I suppose only by forensically examining every MN account would that ever be proven, until then it’s purely conjecture. Just don’t dismiss it simply because there’s no hard evidence.

It would certainly be in the interests of a few organisations to have a working presence on a very popular forum based website aimed at parents, especially in a time of uncertainty.[/quote]
No not dismissing, I said it's something I've long suspected!

Just from your post I wasn't sure if there had been articles on it somewhere - I know for SM in general there's a lot on it :)

It would certainly be in the interests of a few organisations to have a working presence on a very popular forum based website aimed at parents

aye - HART and UsforThem spring to mind..

@Merrymerry2

The irony of your post, OP. Why are people who are trusting every word about the vaccines and complying not seen as a cult with the government?

I think you make a fair point, but by that logic pretty much every society since civilisation began is by definition a cult.

As a society we’ve evolved a system of power that elects representatives to enforce the will of the majority. If you’re not in that majority then I suppose you’re the one ‘in a cult’.

@riveted1 no articles on it yet but I’m sure if there’s any Daily Mail or Sun reporters lurking 👋🏼 there might be one soon enough 👀

I’d quite like to read an article myself @Thewiseoneincognito. I think MN is great and spend far to much time here but when you look at steps large social media sites have taken to tackle misinformation they’re lagging quite badly imho. You can pretty much say what you like and it’s mostly down to the judgement of a biased (and we’re all biased) individual on whether it stands or not.

@Cornettoninja

I’d quite like to read an article myself *@Thewiseoneincognito*. I think MN is great and spend far to much time here but when you look at steps large social media sites have taken to tackle misinformation they’re lagging quite badly imho. You can pretty much say what you like and it’s mostly down to the judgement of a biased (and we’re all biased) individual on whether it stands or not.

Totally agree

So much is left to stand and whilst in theory I agree with "engage with a poster rather than getting their misinformation deleted" approach, there's simple too much, and too often repeated on here.

There are also many posters who clearly have an anti-vaccine agenda (by which I mean downplaying efficacy, sowing doubt regarding side effects, minimising the impact of coronavirus NOT those who don't want to be vaccinated), who are just left to merrily continue on posting

Oddly enough this thread is rather quite for the Coronavirus board 🤔

And it seems to be left to a small group of incredibly dedicated, well qualified posters, who patiently do the the same old debunking myths, over and over again.

Although considering how thankless it is I'm not suprised many don't post as much as they used to.

@riveted1

And it seems to be left to a small group of incredibly dedicated, well qualified posters, who patiently do the the same old debunking myths, over and over again.

Although considering how thankless it is I'm not suprised many don't post as much as they used to.

I think its possibly a pointless task, ive read people with cult like thinking will not respond positively to facts due to brain being unable to logically think or something like that, not sure exact wording used that i read. usually how deprograming can happen is through emotional links, so reaching out on emotional level but this wouldnt nessassry work with randoms on public forum needs to be family and friends of person.