Proof of immunity after infection no longer accepted in England?

[bumbleymummy]

Why?

“The NHS COVID Pass no longer gives details of natural immunity. Proof of natural immunity should not be accepted as an alternative to proof of vaccination or a negative test result.”

www.gov.uk/guidance/prove-your-coronavirus-covid-19-status-to-work-at-venues-or-events-operating-covid-19-status-checks

I don’t remember this being discussed anywhere and I haven’t seen it in the media.

[Title edited by MNHQ for accuracy at OP's request]

Because they want everyone to have the jab

This only applies to England.
Scotland/ Wales have their own passes.
I've just checked and it's showing natural immunity on my covid pass (Scotland).

That’s sneaky. Dd works at a venue checking Covid passes and she only recently told me it had been changed from 3 months to 6 months (meaning she was still exempt). They are closed til Tuesday but she’s not been told anything yet.

(She’s been testing daily anyway)

Because it was always about a digital ID and other controls, nothing to do with health. The vaccines do not stop the transmission.

For traveling it was never accepted for not quarantining. You had to be double vaccinated and it’ll soon be triple

It seems strange that Switzerland recently increased theirs to 12 months and we’re removing it altogether. I know imperial released a report saying that the reinfection rate was higher but the same report also said that protection from infection after two vaccines doses was much lower too so why wouldn’t they require testing from double vaccinated people as well? And why isn’t this being discussed anywhere?

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/modelling-suggests-rapid-spread-omicron-england/

Parkhead, it’s wales too.

Imperial

It's be has immunity against delta doesn't give immunity against omicron.

@bumbleymummy

Why?

“The NHS COVID Pass no longer gives details of natural immunity. Proof of natural immunity should not be accepted as an alternative to proof of vaccination or a negative test result.”

www.gov.uk/guidance/prove-your-coronavirus-covid-19-status-to-work-at-venues-or-events-operating-covid-19-status-checks

I don’t remember this being discussed anywhere and I haven’t seen it in the media.

Perhaps because recent research shows that previous reinfection is only 19% effective against Omicron.

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/

@DoubleDeckerSwimmer I just linked to that in my pp.

From the same report…

“ Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose.”

So why aren’t we also dropping two doses from the passport and requiring tests for double vaccinated people too?

From your first link @bumbleymummy

This guidance applies to England. Scotland and Wales operate their own mandatory certification schemes.

Yes, I know it varies between regions. I actually thought that it was in Wales as well but it was on a different page than I thought. Apologies for any confusion. I have asked mnhq to edit the title.

I’m very surprised that this doesn’t seem to have been discussed or widely reported though. When was this decided and why weren’t we officially informed of the change?

@bumbleymummy

Yes, I know it varies between regions. I actually thought that it was in Wales as well but it was on a different page than I thought. Apologies for any confusion. I have asked mnhq to edit the title.

I’m very surprised that this doesn’t seem to have been discussed or widely reported though. When was this decided and why weren’t we officially informed of the change?

Seems to be reported widely actually.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-covid-pass-app-vaccine-b1978232.html

inews.co.uk/news/nhs-covid-pass-how-get-plan-b-vaccine-passport-new-rules-which-venues-need-explained-1352874

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59662142

Adults in England must now show a Covid pass to enter nightclubs, big sports matches and other large events - despite 100 Conservative MPs voting against the government's plans.The new rules - which kick in today - require proof of double-vaccination, or a recent negative test, to enter certain venues.

I suspect this is informed by the emerging evidence demonstrating that a previous infection alone provides little immunity against omicron.

I think previous infection before vaccine and after vaccine will make the difference. Once jabbed you cannot get natural immunity and this will impact how you react to different strains.

@riveted1 please see above imperial link that also shows that two doses provide 0-20% protection against the predicted 19% protection after infection. Why should one be removed and not the other?

@bumbleymummy do you not see the rationale of this?

There is no point in including a previous infection in a COVID status pass if it does not provide a good level of immunity.

I think you'd have an argument if they don't subsequently reinstate this for infections after a certain date (so you can be reasonably confident someone's coronavirus was caused by omicron and therefore does confer a good level of immunity in the current situation).

I suspect Switzerland and others will update their policies also - and probably now recommend a full course of vaccination despite history of previous infection.

[quote bumbleymummy]@riveted1 please see above imperial link that also shows that two doses provide 0-20% protection against the predicted 19% protection after infection. Why should one be removed and not the other?[/quote]
Because, despite your continued attempts to pit infection against vaccination to discourage people to be vaccinated, it is logical when you consider a) the cumulative protection of infection + vaccination, b) the demonstrated increased protection by adding in a booster jab

You seem to be cherry picking sources that show vaccination to be performing at the lowest efficacy you can find.

They want everyone to get vaccinated.

Why were close contacts of a covid positive person allowed to go to work/ school?

At least vaccines provides protection.

I am not trying to stop people being vaccinated. I am pointing out that the same article that states that protection from reinfection falls to 19% also points that that protection from infection after two doses falls to 0-20% compared to three doses (55-80%). If policies are being changed based on this then why are double vaccinated people not also being required to test?

@riveted1 and ‘cherrypicking’? It’s the exact same article that shows the reduction of protection after infection as after two doses. So you’re happy to believe one figure but not the other?

Once jabbed you cannot get natural immunity and this will impact how you react to different strains.

Where is this from? If people have the vaccine then get covid 2 months later surely they must get natural immunity plus whatever is still left in their system from the vaccine?

Someone else posted this a few days ago it shows that natural immunity + vaccine is far superior to one of the two alone

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913%2821%2900356-8/fulltext

[quote bumbleymummy]@DoubleDeckerSwimmer I just linked to that in my pp.

From the same report…

“ Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose.”

So why aren’t we also dropping two doses from the passport and requiring tests for double vaccinated people too?[/quote]
Yes, I think we were typing at the same time, our posts were only three minutes apart.

So why aren’t we also dropping two doses from the passport and requiring tests for double vaccinated people too?

May well be coming, they are pushing people to get boosters after all. Perhaps once people have had enough time to do that, they will move to requiring three or requiring tests.

I would hope most people would do at least a LFT before they go anywhere. I certainly do.

@DoubleDeckerSwimmer I agree that they should. I’ve been saying that for months though, once we could see that vaccinated people could still be infected. If we want to reduce the risk of spread, particularly with omicron, then they should just be announcing tests for all. I’m not sure how that data justifies double vaccinated people being exempt atm.

@Ridingthegravytrain

I think previous infection before vaccine and after vaccine will make the difference. Once jabbed you cannot get natural immunity and this will impact how you react to different strains.

This is completely incorrect but is being pushed by a lot of anti-vaccine groups @Ridingthegravytrain

Of course you develop natural immunity after being exposed to or infected with coronavirus. What do you think happens to people who go onto to get coronavirus after being vaccinated?

It's just another one of those insidious fake claims designed to put people of being vaccinated.

If you are vaccinated and get infected, you will have a boost & improvement to exisiting immunity, whilst having some protection against infection yourself. If you are unvaccinated and get infected, you will also develop this immune response, but while being at much higher risk of coronavirus symptoms, long term illness & hospitlisation.

[quote bumbleymummy]@riveted1 and ‘cherrypicking’? It’s the exact same article that shows the reduction of protection after infection as after two doses. So you’re happy to believe one figure but not the other? [/quote]
Yes this is my point.

You quote the lower figures for two dose of vaccination, carefully cropping out the next sentence which demonstrates higher figures. Here is the full paragraph

this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose.

I’m not saying you can’t.