Proof of immunity after infection no longer accepted in England?

[bumbleymummy]

Why?

“The NHS COVID Pass no longer gives details of natural immunity. Proof of natural immunity should not be accepted as an alternative to proof of vaccination or a negative test result.”

www.gov.uk/guidance/prove-your-coronavirus-covid-19-status-to-work-at-venues-or-events-operating-covid-19-status-checks

I don’t remember this being discussed anywhere and I haven’t seen it in the media.

[Title edited by MNHQ for accuracy at OP's request]

So why aren’t we also dropping two doses from the passport and requiring tests for double vaccinated people too?

I imagine they don’t have enough tests. So they’ll keep it at two, and then in a month or so, up it to three doses.

@Ridingthegravytrain

I’m not saying you can’t.

You literally did though @Ridingthegravytrain?

Once jabbed you cannot get natural immunity and this will impact how you react to different strains.

It is incorrect.

Because rambling conspiracy theorists need some more shite to peddle?

@riveted1i most certainly did not crop it out! See my post at 11.06. I gave the quote in full - exactly as you have. And I just restated the higher figures for the third dose upthread.

I would ask for an apology but what would be the point?

Natural yes. You’re either deliberately being obtuse or not understanding. You said yourself you get an immune boost from getting covid after the vaccine. It’s not a natural immunity it’s a vaccinated immunity. They are different.

@Ridingthegravytrain

Natural yes. You’re either deliberately being obtuse or not understanding. You said yourself you get an immune boost from getting covid after the vaccine. It’s not a natural immunity it’s a vaccinated immunity. They are different.

I don't think you read my post? I'm definitely not the one being obtuse.

You said:

Once jabbed you cannot get natural immunity and this will impact how you react to different strains.

And I replied..

Of course vaccinated people develop natural immunity after being exposed to or infected with coronavirus. What do you think happens to people who go onto to get coronavirus after being vaccinated?

If you are vaccinated and get infected, you will have a boost & improvement to exisiting immunity, whilst having some protection against infection yourself. If you are unvaccinated and get infected, you will also develop this immune response, but while being at much higher risk of coronavirus symptoms, long term illness & hospitlisation.

Incidentally, why do you think is not a big an issue as it is? @Ridingthegravytrain

We vaccinate a substantial amount of the population yearly, their immune response goes onto be improved and "updated" by repeating exposure/infection to 'flu strains throughout the lifespan.

As I said, vaccination does not prevent you from forming a natural immune response, it's just another fake claim propogated by anti-vaccine groups and repeated by people like yourself.

You can just do a test on the day if you don't want the jab.

Natural immunity is too hard to monitor.

Yes. But we are asking previously infected people to test and not 2x vaccinated people even though protection from both has fallen.

@poshme

It's be has immunity against delta doesn't give immunity against omicron.

That's what I was told by school. All kids need to have a LFT before school even if they have just had covid because of infections of omicron after delta.

@SickAndTiredAgain

So why aren’t we also dropping two doses from the passport and requiring tests for double vaccinated people too?

I imagine they don’t have enough tests. So they’ll keep it at two, and then in a month or so, up it to three doses.

Didn't Boris say something about that at the last press conference? Something like until everyone had been offered the third dose they wouldn't change it?

Something like until everyone had been offered the third dose they wouldn't change it?

Yes - like not introducing restrictions back when not all age groups had been offered the vaccine yet.

Except in this instance, all he would be asking people to do is take a test, regardless of their vaccine status. Why would that be such a bad thing to ask?

I agree that the policies should be consistent and reflect the data available. If double vaxxed gives similar low protection as previous infection then they should be treated the same. No need to give anyone time to get a booster, it's only a test!

@bumbleymummy

Except in this instance, all he would be asking people to do is take a test, regardless of their vaccine status. Why would that be such a bad thing to ask?

I don't disagree with this and neither do the many others who do regular LFTs as part of mass testing - this has been an encouraged public health policy for a long time now

You have previously posted saying you don't see the point in asymptomatic testing and didn't understand why anyone was still doing it, however.

Everything I read including info from the vaccine expert in SA to various articles say that natural acquired immunity will protect you.
This is interesting as it says there have been no mutations offering escape from T cells (don't know if peer reviewed )
"These findings illustrate that despite the continuous pattern of the ongoing evolution of SARS-CoV-2, it has not resulted in any significant accumulation of CD8+ T-cell escape mutations. The results also reveal that existing CD8+ T-cell responses from a previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, and most likely vaccination, will recognize the Omicron VOC and should provide significant protection against COVID-19".

The experts in SA think that is has helped keep hospitalisations low.

The French government announced yesterday that they are going to try to pass a law in January which changes our current "pass sanitiare" into a "pass vaccinal". So they are actually going to change the name of the thing from sanitary pass to vaccine pass.

Negative tests will no longer be accepted (at the moment a negative PCR or antigenic gives you a 24 hour pass - it used to be 48 hours).

Proof of previous infection is still accepted with a time limit of 6 months.

Everyone who is 18 years old and above must be fully vaccinated. The definition of which is now 2 primary doses plus a 3rd dose within max 7 months.

www.linternaute.com/sortir/guide-des-loisirs/2538272-pass-sanitaire-la-fin-de-la-mesure-et-le-nouveau-pass-c-est-pour-quand/

General feeling is that the law will go through.

Prime Minister clearly stated that the objective is to pressure people into getting vaccinated.

Shocking @Beachcomber. Why? What is the end goal here? When does this stop?

I dont understand how our country is saying natural immunity is not good enough. South Africa have said they think the reason most of the cases there have been mild is because of obviously a younger population and because majority of the country have already had a previous infection from the other covid waves. The vaccine rate in SA Is very low. So its both vaccinated and previous infection helping keep it at mild cases. It still stands though that more have natrual immunity as opposed to vaccinate prompted immunity.

The French Prime Minister basically stated 3 reasons;

the vast majority of people in hospital with covid are unvaccinated

why should some people get away with being unvaccinated when the majority have "played the game" and had it done

why should unvaccinated people spoil things for the vaccinated people and cause them have to have annoying restrictions imposed on them

Reports on current data in the press say that at the beginning of December 43% of covid related hopsital admissions were in unvaccinated people and 57% in vaccinated people. ICU admissions are at 50% for both groups. Deaths are 46% unvaccinated and 54% vaccinated.

Vaccination rate is 75% of the population and about 88.8% of the adult population.

www.liberation.fr/checknews/covid-19-est-il-vrai-que-80-des-hospitalisations-concernent-des-non-vaccines-comme-le-dit-karine-lacombe-20211203_QPLLDHSJOFFH7GXEIPP6BYGMP4/

If you ask most people they will tell you that 80% of hospital admissions are in unvaccinated people as that is the (untrue) figure that was put out by high up infectious disease specialist Karine Lacombe in a commission to the Senate (and which of course was then endlessly reported and rereported in the press).

Do you ever post anything that doesn't involve "natural immunity"?

@Flapjacker48

Do you ever post anything that doesn't involve "natural immunity"?

Ah that's not fair, there are many other angles that have been taken with the aim of persuading people they don't need to/shouldn't be vaccinated

@Flapjacker48

Do you ever post anything that doesn't involve "natural immunity"?

Yep, plenty. Thanks for your valuable contribution to the thread

@Beachcomber Surely that will change if omicron does result in lower hospitalisations? The end goal can’t just be based on reaching an arbitrary vaccine target.

Quite honestly the way Castex was speaking made it seem like the end goal is to not let people get away with not being vaccinated.

Which is shocking enough (to me).

What should be shocking to most is that the PM has just told a blatant lie on national TV. And not only a lie but a lie with an extra added helping of misleading spin.

He said:

"Nous assumons de faire peser la contrainte sur les non-vaccinés, car les services de soins critiques et de réanimation de nos hôpitaux sont remplis, pour l'essentiel, de personnes non vaccinées."

Which translates as:

We assume the responsibility of placing the contraints on the unvaccinated, because the critical care and reanimation services in our hospitals are mostly filled with unvaccinated people.

According to government reports, in 2019 there were 19,600 critical care beds in France.

According to official Department of Health figures as reported in the press, 1933 people are currently in critical care due to covid. Also according to the government figues as reported in the press, 50% of those in critical care are vaccinated. So that would mean about 977 unvaccinated people are in critical care with covid. And there is a similar number who are vaccinated.

Castex's statement makes it sound like not only are an overwhelming proportion of critical care covid patients unvaccainated (not true it's 50%) but that an overwhelming number of the total critical care beds are filled with unvaccinated covid patients (not true it's just under 5% if the numbers being reported from the goverment's own stats are correct).

drees.solidarites-sante.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2021-07/Fiche%2013%20-%20Les%20capacit%C3%A9s%20d%E2%80%99accueil%20en%20soins%20critiques.pdf

www.lci.fr/sante/en-direct-covid-19-pandemie-omicron-vaccin-pass-vaccinal-legere-baisse-des-hospitalisations-une-premiere-pour-la-cinquieme-vague-selon-les-chiffres-de-sante-publique-france-2196156.html