Proof of immunity after infection no longer accepted in England?

[bumbleymummy]

Why?

“The NHS COVID Pass no longer gives details of natural immunity. Proof of natural immunity should not be accepted as an alternative to proof of vaccination or a negative test result.”

www.gov.uk/guidance/prove-your-coronavirus-covid-19-status-to-work-at-venues-or-events-operating-covid-19-status-checks

I don’t remember this being discussed anywhere and I haven’t seen it in the media.

[Title edited by MNHQ for accuracy at OP's request]

I expect it'll be three vaccinations for a pass after this vaccination drive? Can't blame them for removing natural immunity although I think it's fair enough to ask for a negative lateral flow done that day.

@Barbie222

I expect it'll be three vaccinations for a pass after this vaccination drive? Can't blame them for removing natural immunity although I think it's fair enough to ask for a negative lateral flow done that day.

Do you think it’s fair enough that double vaccinated people aren’t being asked for proof of a negative test given the latest data on reduced effectiveness? Why?

@Beachcomber I agree, that is shocking.

[quote Beachcomber]Quite honestly the way Castex was speaking made it seem like the end goal is to not let people get away with not being vaccinated.

Which is shocking enough (to me).

What should be shocking to most is that the PM has just told a blatant lie on national TV. And not only a lie but a lie with an extra added helping of misleading spin.

He said:

"Nous assumons de faire peser la contrainte sur les non-vaccinés, car les services de soins critiques et de réanimation de nos hôpitaux sont remplis, pour l'essentiel, de personnes non vaccinées."

Which translates as:

We assume the responsibility of placing the contraints on the unvaccinated, because the critical care and reanimation services in our hospitals are mostly filled with unvaccinated people.

According to government reports, in 2019 there were 19,600 critical care beds in France.

According to official Department of Health figures as reported in the press, 1933 people are currently in critical care due to covid. Also according to the government figues as reported in the press, 50% of those in critical care are vaccinated. So that would mean about 977 unvaccinated people are in critical care with covid. And there is a similar number who are vaccinated.

Castex's statement makes it sound like not only are an overwhelming proportion of critical care covid patients unvaccainated (not true it's 50%) but that an overwhelming number of the total critical care beds are filled with unvaccinated covid patients (not true it's just under 5% if the numbers being reported from the goverment's own stats are correct).

drees.solidarites-sante.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2021-07/Fiche%2013%20-%20Les%20capacit%C3%A9s%20d%E2%80%99accueil%20en%20soins%20critiques.pdf

www.lci.fr/sante/en-direct-covid-19-pandemie-omicron-vaccin-pass-vaccinal-legere-baisse-des-hospitalisations-une-premiere-pour-la-cinquieme-vague-selon-les-chiffres-de-sante-publique-france-2196156.html[/quote]
At least their are some sane people on MN still with the ability to read actual statistics. Pointless relaying such things here though, people don’t want to see what’s going on in front of their nose.

Do you think it’s fair enough that double vaccinated people aren’t being asked for proof of a negative test given the latest data on reduced effectiveness? Why?

To be honest I'm not sure the kinds of huge events that need a pass should really be going ahead at the moment, given the general poor immunity to Omicron. But as the govt have deemed they should be, they must have reason to believe that the data on resistance post 2 vaccinations is more solid and reliable than data on resistance to natural immunity. How do you declare natural immunity anyway? Is it proof of a positive test? If so how do you ascertain the level of antibodies in individuals given that the viral load would be so varied?

@Barbie222 - the data for both comes from the Imperial article above. So if they accept the figures for immunity after infection dropping then they should also accept the figures for immunity after two doses dropping.

Several studies over the last year showed that immunity after infection, even mild infection, lasted for 10+ months in the majority of people. Reinfection was rare (ONS) and Switzerland recently increased proof of recovery from 6 to 12 months. It seems a bit premature to remove it tbh. SA data showed that there was an increase in reinfections but they were still mild. The majority of their population is unvaccinated and ~70% are thought to have immunity from previous infection.