Someone somewhere needs to articulate the lost quality of life

[Gguin]

Firstly, I am not saying I think there shouldn't be restrictions as needed, masks, reduced social contact. I do. Just to reemphasise that, to prevent people misreading the title, I support and abide and have abided by restrictions, both statutory and advised.
I also hated every single second of the lockdown. I hated what it did to friends. I hated the disregard of single people. I hated the criminalisation of social lives. I hated the lost opportunities for young and not so young people to build or change their lives. I hated the paranoia and judgmentalism. I hated the NHS worship and everyone else can go hang.
And yes I hate this feeling, somewhere between anxiety, depression and a grinding underlying fear of future regret on all that has been lost. I drove past a pub in rural Ireland where I live today and it was shut, boarded up and probably will never reopen. The sign "craic agus ceoil" (laughter and music) was worn and frayed, like a relic of the times when we were able to enjoy themselves with abandon.
All I would like as the latest chapter of shit unfolds is for someone, somewhere to actually articulate the sadness of all the lost opportunities. The friends that have never been made, the months and years spent indoors, the catastrophic toll on mental health and above all this awful feeling that the many of the very things that make life worth living are so expendable and in some quarters, not even mourned.

@secretllama

Agree. I hate people speaking for me that "as long as we're healthy thats the main thing". Just no. It isn't the main thing to me if it means at the detriment to all the things you've mentioned.

Absolutely this. Could not have said it better

@EnidSpyton

I'm not trying to invalidate how people feel. I get that it's shit. I'm living through it too. You have no idea of my personal circumstances or the state of my mental health.

What I'm saying is that conversations like this where everyone supports one another in a spiral of negative thinking is really damaging. When people say things like 'it's never going to end' or 'we're all living a half life', and there is affirmation from others that this is true and it's all dreadful and there's no hope, then that leads to more feelings of dread and hopelessness. It's really destructive. And it's rife on this site.

No one wants this. None of us do. I certainly don't. But I also don't want to live in a black hole of misery.

I didn't realise it was 'nasty' and 'smug' and 'toxic' to offer a different way of approaching the times we're living through. Sorry that I've come across as apparently being so offensive. I was just trying to give a different view.

Solidarity Enid. I know you're getting a bit of a hard time, but I completely agree with everything you say. I can still see some joy in our lives, miraculously, and I'm also a glass half full person which helps. What I have observed though is that when people try to be glass half full with me, it can sometimes feel like they are minimising what we are going through. It's a tricky balance. It is very draining though when people focus on the negative. I simply cannot do that. It would break me completely as I have very little resilience to it, which I suspect is why I always have to focus on positives. Other people seem more able to live with it.

If it drains you when people focus on the negative, honestly, why don't you just be kind to yourself and not participate in this thread?

This is one thread

As others have said they do positivity elsewhere.

There’s no assumption that is not there.

@VikingOnTheFridge

If it drains you when people focus on the negative, honestly, why don't you just be kind to yourself and not participate in this thread?

Thanks, but if I want to offer some solidarity to someone who I think is getting a hard time I will. Agree though that trying to speak generally on a thread where people are in a bad place and sharing their difficulties is going to inevitably mean that some are going to take my comments personally, which was not the intention.

Well fortunately Enid does appear to have taken on board that her posts were inappropriate and unhelpful, at least to the extent that she isn't doing it any more. Really, your analysis was much better than hers in that you acknowledge how dismissive a glass half full approach where nobody wants it is. It doesn't benefit anyone at all. It's detrimental.

@VikingOnTheFridge

Well fortunately Enid does appear to have taken on board that her posts were inappropriate and unhelpful, at least to the extent that she isn't doing it any more. Really, your analysis was much better than hers in that you acknowledge how dismissive a glass half full approach where nobody wants it is. It doesn't benefit anyone at all. It's detrimental.

It was also acknowledging that other people seem to be able to cope with negative thoughts more easily and it's not as devastating to them. Whereas I have no resilience to them and therefore having any at all to me is really damaging and I therefore have to put a positive spin on them in order to cope.

I've had to explore this a lot while caring for DD. She and DH have a different approach to dealing with what we are going through. They are glass half empty people and I have been able to see that countering their negative thoughts with my positive spins doesn't automatically turn them into a positive thought. It's more complicated than that.

I've always said that it is like a faith. My faith is hope that DD will recover and get her life back. People who want to inject some realism into that, with what I perceive to be negativity, is unhelpful to me. I have to be able to get out of bed every day and look after DD and if that's how I need to do it, so be it. Trying to test my faith is draining and that's what I meant by my previous comment about negativity being draining. It wasn't a specific comment about how draining the posts on this thread are.

I've been really moved by some of the stories on here. What's wrong with feeling the hurt and the pain and the suffering, with grieving, so that in some way a value can be given to socialising, so that it can be seen as something to aspire to, the thing that you look forward to.

And I think it's worth saying that there needs to be a counter narrative too. There is a person living in the next village I live in who is the living incarnation of the "Smiling Jailer" mentality that has spring up. 60ish, financially secure and a former health care worker, they monitor and regularly post on a local website which at the height of restrictions brutalised mental health with paranoia, sanctimoniousness and judgementalism. Never has their self perceived status been higher, and never will it be. It is like they are drunk on the status and control.

You see, for me, the first step in rebuilding a future which is better than the present and maybe even than the past is to look at the things that aren't working, or used to but don't, & think how you want them to be.

I've never been a big festival goer but I have been dreaming about the first proper Glastonbury. One where in whatever form people can really really let themselves go, can really really live. Meet new people, discover new bands, fall in love, create memories.

As for this constant mentioning of "well don't expect things to go back to the way they were, anytime soon, if ever" said in the nagging tone of a parent reminding their child of impending exams, well I don't.
Because when I read the stories here, the stories of isolation, of heartbreak, that awful story about the young woman with Long Covid stuck ill at home, the fact that they may not get the beautiful future they deserve doesn't stop me wanting it, or planning it, or refusing to accept things I would have done before. Like people who take pleasure in deflating other people's bubbles, people who think that because there was a war that ended 76 years ago nobody ever again has the right to mourn for anything or to want anything to be different.

Because I do want things to be different. Radically different. And believe it or not listening to and vocalising these stories of loss is for me the first step in this process.

As for this whole "Glastonbury next year-you'll be lucky" (written with a self-righteous smirk) mentality, the truth is nobody knows what will actually happen. Maybe this latest wave recedes or new drugs appear. Maybe it is crap for a while and then the seesaw breaks and electorates pressurise governments to change approach. Maybe it doesn't change, maybe it gets worse. But I won't ever let the the vacuum of uncertainty be filled with the twin poisons of denial and dread.

I went to a pub last night for the last pee curfew music session. (Yes I went to a pub! And still I'm writing on here about loss and grief and suffering and wanting things to be better...so don't bother with the tirades) At the end the landlord played Fairytale of New York and it felt like an elegy but more than that it felt like a song for the future and how we want it to be. Happy Christmas your arse, I pray God its not our last

Reading through the thread I get the sense of lots of parents putting on a brave face and trying to keep things positive for their DC. Inwardly though, many of us feel quite despairing - and that’s OK.

Completely agree OP.

I think we should be able to talk about it without accusations of speaking in bad faith.

So much has been lost and yet, as you say, people have been offered little space to mourn that loss. And little space to vent frustration and anger, without being seen as some polarizing idiot.

I feel very strongly that we've all been let down, bruised and hurt by govt's lack of clear, empathetic communication. There's no reassurance to be had anywhere and over the months, (now almost years!) I think it has driven people into catastrophic states of anxiety, high stress and deep depression. Of course govt will err on the side of caution in its messaging, but surely there are ways of communicating with the public that are measured, serene, calm and clear, that let people know that we'll do our very best to look after each other. Messages of doom help no one. Empathy, connection, sharing, laughing, touch are what make us humans so great and to not acknowledge that, and what we lose when we curtail all of it, is unforgivable.

I remember very clearly needing to travel to Sweden last year. Not finding what relevant tests/papers I needed to fill in, I phoned the Swedish embassy and an embassy employee asked me - are you feeling sick? No. Do you need to travel to Sweden? Yes. 'Then we trust that you will make the very best decisions surrounding your trip. ' I could have cried. It was the first time in months I felt treated like a responsible adult, a human being that would act in the best interests of those around me.

Thank you for opening up this thread. I think it's very important to talk about and to acknowledge we'll be picking up the pieces of broken connections, stunted plans and bruised hearts for years to come.

@Kokeshi123

And if one more person starts bleating about how "people in history suffered stuff that is far worse," I may be tempted to point that people people in history also suffered outbreaks of disease with far worse IFRs and didn't lock down for them.

We've moved beyond history, there's a post on another thread saying they dread to think how people will cope with future wars!

I was responding to earlier posters who said they missed travel. Hence why I used that example.

I mentioned travel and yes, I know it sounds frivolous. However it's not the only thing, there's been plenty of other things that have happened over the last two years that wouldn't have done, or I would have been able to cope with better, if it wasn't for lockdown, rule of 6 or other restrictions.

I am thankful for what I have but, like many other people, I'm sad for what I've lost. Right now I can't see an end to this and that's the worst part. What's done is done, but the thought of this being 'it' is unbearable.

I think it's completely reasonable and probably very healthy to want a space to acknowledge how awful things have been. For me that becomes problematic when there's an additional implication that it hasn't been worth it or there's no longer any point taking measures to protect vulnerable people. I know that isn't what the OP is about at all but a few of the posts here have an air of that about them.
Personally I am a long way away from being able to reflect on some of the difficulties of the pandemic, it is still too close and, particularly now, too real. So maybe that is also partly why we don't see this stuff articulated much yet.

Well, pandemics, however they are managed, have big downsides, don't they?

It is of course a great shame to have all this negative impact on education and the arts and on our social lives and travel. These are a lot of the things that make life worth living.

At the same time, there is a reason for wanting to prevent a lot of infections and deaths, and that side of things would have been far far worse if no action had been taken. And there would have been other consequences for society with even more disruption in other ways.

Also rural pubs (as mentioned in the OP) were closing at the rate of one per week before the pandemic, so some of the changes to our way of life may be due to other factors.

So I don't feel quite so elegaic about all the things we have lost; many of the things on pause can be revived, maybe in a somewhat different format, though of course it is understandable to feel sorrow for lost opportunities, and dreams that didn't come true, as well as for people that we have lost through all this.

Well, pandemics, however they are managed, have big downsides, don't they?

That’s not the most helpful of contributions to this thread, really, is it?

If this thread isn’t of interest to you then perhaps move along and find another one. It is okay if people want to discuss feeling sad without caveating it with sixteen paragraphs about how but of course covid is bad and dying is bad and etc etc etc.

Yes but @GoldenOmber some people are also going further and asking if it's worth it (or implying it isn't) which I think will inevitably (reasonably?) generate some responses along those lines!

@Lubballoo

Yes but *@GoldenOmber* some people are also going further and asking if it's worth it (or implying it isn't) which I think will inevitably (reasonably?) generate some responses along those lines!

Perhaps, but the post I was quoting there wasn’t talking about any discussion w/r/t specific cost/benefits of any particular things. It was a general comment about how “pandemics have downsides” (no! 😱) and we should all recognise that.

There are approximately 32,351 other threads on Mumsnet to talk about the costs vs benefits of restrictions or whether it was worse in the Blitz or whether lockdowns had benefits or all the other things people are striding in here to declare. Could we PLEASE PLEASE have ONE thread to just be sad and talk about that without people deciding we need to be chivvied/shamed/‘look on the bright side’/finger-wagged out of it? Just one?

@GoldenOmber

Well, pandemics, however they are managed, have big downsides, don't they?

That’s not the most helpful of contributions to this thread, really, is it?

If this thread isn’t of interest to you then perhaps move along and find another one. It is okay if people want to discuss feeling sad without caveating it with sixteen paragraphs about how but of course covid is bad and dying is bad and etc etc etc.

The arrogance, after multiple explanations of how unhelpful and dismissive these posts are, is something else.

@GoldenOmber i do understand that desire to have that place. But personally I couldn't leave statements like "So much harm for so little gain - how many lives did we save with these measures?"go without comment and I don't think that's unreasonable either.

Without hope we are nothing.

[quote Lubballoo]@GoldenOmber i do understand that desire to have that place. But personally I couldn't leave statements like "So much harm for so little gain - how many lives did we save with these measures?"go without comment and I don't think that's unreasonable either.[/quote]
Again though, the post Golden Omber referred to did none of those things. It was yet another post from someone who's unwilling to allow people simply to talk about how hard it's been without offering half arsed, unwanted rationalisations.

Very much agree with the op. I feel like I'm telling my children to swallow down their sadness all the time. I'm not sure what the better way is just need to help them out one foot in front of the other.

Yes, agreed @VikingOnTheFridge but there's a wider context here too of some people posting to say the restrictions are/were for too little benefit and that is going to invite a counter response, is all I'm saying. I personally am not going to share my own difficulties in a place where some people are going to use that to advocate for the removal of safety measures, for example, and I couldn't help but feel the need to respond to that sentiment!

But I'm agreeing with you, overall, I think. While personally I don't mind the more upbeat posts, I certainly don't feel able to post my less positive feelings when someone is probably going to come along (or already has, in fact) to say it hasn't been worth it

I don't actually mind too much the upbeat posts that are just people talking about how their experiences of lockdown were ok. It's the posters who insist on regaling us with their views about how our sadness is worth it and/or giving cod psychological advice, when it's clear nobody gives a shit about either.

I guess in my own situation though, I am a bit dependent on people continuing to think that our collective sadness is still worth it, so I am sad if people stop giving a shit about that! I do feel very sad but I still feel it's worth it.