Am I wrong to think people who say they aren't scared of Covid just aren't getting it?

[youhadmeatjello]

I know we've all had enough, I've really had enough. We travel in a few days and am just desperately trying not to catch covid so we can actually go forward with our plans.

But I'm so sick of friends and others saying 'oh I'm not scared of Covid anymore so I'm just living my life and not following the rules anymore'

Why can't people see that it's not about being scared of Covid, it's about the fragility of our infrastructure if lots of people are off sick? Do they not realise how many essential services could be impacted?

I'm not calling for a lockdown at all, I don't think it's the right course of action but I do think we should individually take a bit of responsibility and follow mask wearing etc at least.

And people who are saying 'the government have never been bothered about viruses etc before' - sure they have, they panic every time they think there's going to be a bad flu season. But people have forgotten that!

I'm just so frustrated that so many people can't see the bigger picture here, but maybe it's because I have many loved ones who work in essential services and I can already see the strain on them.

Maybe it’s time that people stayed off because they were feeling I’ll and not actually able to work, instead of because a test tells them that they need to sit on their arses for 10 days to protect other people from a virus which is not much more dangerous than a bad cold, if they are sensibly vaccinated?

@Beadebaser as I said though, this was all "theoretically discussed" when there was talk of overrun hospitals last year and the contingency plans would not give priority to an older covid patient if it meant a pregnant woman dying in childbirth (if the younger woman and baby could be saved by diverting resources).

No doubt I'll sound stone cold and heartless but it's too easy to get emotional about the deaths and completely disregard the wider impacts. Also, this is the fault of a virus and the government. Since you can't blame a virus, blame the government for letting it get this bad (if what you're saying will happen actually happens).

So I get that people are frustrated. Do you think it’s acceptable for covid positive people to mix with clinically vulnerable individuals- maybe your friend who’s having chemo for breast cancer, a colleague with severe but well controlled asthma ? Suggesting that people with covid should not isolate is ludicrous.
Also saying that the NHS has been struggling for years and it’s not your responsibility to ‘save’ it is somewhat shortsighted. Our ICU has lost many experienced nursing staff because they are burnt out. We are short of medics too. Ultimately you and your loved ones will indirectly be affected when care is poor and services limited because of staff shortages.

@MarshaBradyo

My comment was about people's inability to see beyond their own lives.

People have done this - part of the reason why sacrifices were made. I know when I’ve felt awful the thought of health care person (reading what they are going through) gave me a bit of a push.

Also it goes the other way - lost livelihoods etc

I feel for everyone who’s had a tough time, and I can see it’s very hard for you and your dd, but I do have an issue with the idea of ‘selfish’ after all people have done for a long time.

Again, and for the last time, just because my DD's and our lives have been totally fucked by Covid, I have never said that people are selfish because they want to carry on as if Covid doesn't exist. I didn't actually say what behaviour I thought was selfish. It's just everyone else that's inferred that.

You have people who are advocating lockdown because their lives are at risk and others whose MH and livelihoods are at risk are advocating for no mitigations. Neither (as a rule) are understanding of the other people's situations and are only judging by their own. I think that's a shame and one of the most disappointing things I've discovered about the population as a whole.

Those replying with their own personal viewpoint saying "blah blah I understand and empathise" are missing the point and demonstrating it at the same time. The point isn't how you are responding or what you want, but the wider population. Anyone who doesn't want to try and understand that, simply doesn't want to. Maybe this foray into social science is too much for this thread.

Bonne ok you seem angry for some reason and ‘blah blah’ over empathy.. well ok.

I still think you are wrong. Society as a whole has shown the opposite.

In fact that last bit - I can see why you post as you do if you think so lowly and quick to insult it probably comes back.

as I said though, this was all "theoretically discussed" when there was talk of overrun hospitals last year and the contingency plans would not give priority to an older covid patient if it meant a pregnant woman dying in childbirth (if the younger woman and baby could be saved by diverting resources)

the older person with covid, however, will still need a hospital bed and some level of care. We are somewhat blase given that armaggedon was predicted for the first wave and it thankfully never happened so we are assuming it'll be the same again. And the wider argument again is that it is not just the collapse of the NHS we need to worry about - there is much more at stake - including the economy if we lockdown unnecessarily, or even if we lockdown at all. There really is a need for people to give thought to the bigger picture and understand that it could be them and their families who are negatively impacted - either needing emergency support of any kind (health, police, fire, coast guard, pharmacy, utilities) or through the horrendous aftermath of serious economic issues for many, many more than have already been affected. Saying 'it isn't me who'll get ill so I'll do whatever I want' isn't going to help, is it?

I guess it depends if you want to live in fear forever. I don't feel afraid of covid anymore. Am I afraid to die? Yes of course I am. But there are other ways to die. Am I afraid of more disruptions to our lives, lockdowns and school closures? Yes, but they are beyond my control and I accept we need to Do what we can to limit the spread. Am I afraid of other people including my loved ones dying? Of course. Before covid I was as well. So I get my jabs and wear my masks and wash my hands. But am I afraid of the virus? No. It's just one of many hazards I risk assess for now. Like fire, or road safety, or norovirus or food poisoning, or my anaphylactic allergens. I don't live in fear. Covid is just another thing I've learned to live with. But I am living again now. My life won't be on pause. And I won't let fear rule my life.

@rarityroast - an elderly Covid patient would still need manpower/womanpower, a bed - even if it’s to pass away comfortably.

My concern would be that a child or woman in labour would not receive a good standard of care - or adequate care - even if they are prioritised - if staff are ill themselves, the various infrastructure that serves a hospital cannot be provided etc etc.

It is so important that we don’t become desensitised to death in order to put our personal liberties first and foremost.

Death has no liberty.

It doesn’t make sense that countries are restricting their citizens more and more when it goes against the democracy and freedoms that they stood for.

You'd almost think there was a global pandemic of a highly contagious airborne virus!

@BonnesVacances you didn't say what behaviour you thought was selfish?....

YANBU. Unfortunately the pandemic has highlighted just how selfish people are (and by selfish I mean unable to see beyond their own lives) and how much they need to feel cleverer than they actually are and think they're better informed than the experts. When in fact they're really not.

Your post definitely implied it. The whole "cleverer than experts" phrase is almost as common as calling people selfish and they're both repeated constantly by people who are largely arguing for harsher restrictions and assuming anyone against them are idiots.

Clearly this is not you at all, but maybe you should work on saying what you want to say instead of pretending the rest of us are thick for not understanding that this was just a foray into social science?

Do you think a time will come when isolation of any sort is no longer required?

We have nearly all been vaccinated and are getting our boosters. What more can we do? Do we need to do more, or can we a start to treat it it the same way as any other illness where the individual makes a judgement on whether they go out / to work or not?

Plus on a population level we have had pretty high compliance - for a long period

That plus all the sacrifices by many

So I’d say the opposite

‘Selfish’ - we are all selfish. There is no such thing as a selfless act. Even the most heroic act can be ultimately be seen as selfish.

I think omicron is a bit like global warming.

You have one crowd that wonder what all the fuss is about, that it’s alla conspiracy.

You have another crowd that think we should do everything we can to minimise global warming.

Then you have a third crew that think climate change is very real but it’s too late to do anything meaningful about it on a personal level.

I think lockdown was necessary last winter. I think it might be pissing in the wind this winter and we will possibly have to get rid of isolation and just get through it. We won’t have a lockdown, we’ll have a shut down.

Get your boosters though.

Anyone who isn't at all scared...

There's no straight talk with crazy people, as Gavin de Becker says.

Mask wearing, absolutely happy to comply. Further lockdowns and travel restrictions, absolutely not.

As someone upthread stated - for most vaccinated people Covid is a mild, self-limiting illness. It’s also not our job to protect essential services, but the government’s. We complied with lockdowns last year and have managed to avoid a complete Covid-induced meltdown of the NHS.

Covid is with us for the long-haul and further restrictions are not the solution, regardless of variant. I’m not “scared” of Covid on a very selfish level because I’ve already had it pre-vaccines, and myself and all my close family are triple-jabbed.

I imagine most people are just desperate to spend time with their loved ones this Christmas and if Omicron equates to no more than a bad cold for the majority of us, I can understand why people are jaded, fed up, and desperate just to spend Christmas with loved ones regardless.

@DerTrotzkopf

So I get that people are frustrated. Do you think it’s acceptable for covid positive people to mix with clinically vulnerable individuals- maybe your friend who’s having chemo for breast cancer, a colleague with severe but well controlled asthma ? Suggesting that people with covid should not isolate is ludicrous. Also saying that the NHS has been struggling for years and it’s not your responsibility to ‘save’ it is somewhat shortsighted. Our ICU has lost many experienced nursing staff because they are burnt out. We are short of medics too. Ultimately you and your loved ones will indirectly be affected when care is poor and services limited because of staff shortages.

Was it any more unacceptable than in previous years when people with colds and flu were mingling with CV people?

We are crippling society by requiring people with no/very mild symptoms to isolate for 10 days just in case they infect a vulnerable person who, at this point, has more than likely been triple vaccinated.

**Enzbear

People are getting sore throats and coughs not the plague. We're not turning into zombies or piling up our dead in the streets. The rules were always nonsense and now everyone I know is sick of them.
If people want to hide away, hide away forever but I wish they would stop hyping stuff up because they want to lounge around at home in their pj's and get paid again. Everyone I know is partying all Christmas while we can.*

🤣 brilliant!

They wouldn't even see my son when he was poorly (it wasn't covid), but the vet seen my dog instantly when he was poorly. How does that work? Dogs coming before humans

Exactly but it's been happening for years..dogs coming before humans. Vets rubbing their hands in glee every time Fido gets sick!! But that's another subject. Dogs also come before humans in that everyone who wants a dog from a rehoming centre has to be vetted and yet so many children die at the hands of a useless shit for brains parents who never should have been allowed to be parents in the first place!....sorry going off topic there slightly.

@Snookie00

All we’ve heard about for the last 18 months is the vulnerable. They have been prioritised over everyone else. To save the NHS - apparently of which the groups vulnerable to covid are the biggest users.

I wouldn't mind so much if 'the vulnerable' were one specific group with the same interests, and it were actually possible to take a course of action that didn't fuck some of them over to prioritise others. It isn't.

@bumbleymummy

The difference being that in previous years, the NHS were stretched - but could still provide basic services.

They now are potentially faced with a huge influx of Covid patients ON TOP of everything else, making it unmanageable.

I think Omnicron variant is showing us how utterly futile it is to try to control a relatively benign and easily transmitable virus. The great leaps in democracy, living standards and modern medicine in the past 100 years has given us the false impression that we have full control our environment. Modern governments are not able to say “yes it’s shit, people will die and there’s not much we can do about it”. They need to be seen to “do” something even if it’s a massive waste of time and resource. It’s like building costly but useless flood barriers in the face of a tsunami.

The government and the NHS have said that if you have had 3 vaccinations and are otherwise fit and healthy that the virus shouldnt make you very ill. For these reasons I am going back to normal and enjoying my life.

A year ago I hadnt been vaccinated and the virus could have killed me. That is not the case now.

What has changed is my tolerance the the pearl clutching, antibac grocery wiping, isolating for a headache brigade. You live your life I will live mine. I've had enough of being told what to do. ESPECIALLY by other civilians no more clued up than me

How many people have had covid so far in the UK? I can't find that info anywhere

@Wintersnuggles10

How many people have had covid so far in the UK? I can't find that info anywhere

30 second Google, told me: 11,097,851