Am I wrong to think people who say they aren't scared of Covid just aren't getting it?

[youhadmeatjello]

I know we've all had enough, I've really had enough. We travel in a few days and am just desperately trying not to catch covid so we can actually go forward with our plans.

But I'm so sick of friends and others saying 'oh I'm not scared of Covid anymore so I'm just living my life and not following the rules anymore'

Why can't people see that it's not about being scared of Covid, it's about the fragility of our infrastructure if lots of people are off sick? Do they not realise how many essential services could be impacted?

I'm not calling for a lockdown at all, I don't think it's the right course of action but I do think we should individually take a bit of responsibility and follow mask wearing etc at least.

And people who are saying 'the government have never been bothered about viruses etc before' - sure they have, they panic every time they think there's going to be a bad flu season. But people have forgotten that!

I'm just so frustrated that so many people can't see the bigger picture here, but maybe it's because I have many loved ones who work in essential services and I can already see the strain on them.

All we’ve heard about for the last 18 months is the vulnerable. They have been prioritised over everyone else. To save the NHS - apparently of which the groups vulnerable to covid are the biggest users.

If a hospital is forced to close, or collapses - or simply cannot take another patient (whether that’s a child/pregnant mother etc) - because it is overwhelmed and has no staff - surely everything should be done to prevent that scenario

But the chances are it's not going to be a child or a pregnant mother. Why do you keep insisting it's going to be a child or a pregnant mother?

There are definitely children and pregnant mother's dying all over the world though. For sure. What are you, personally, doing about that? I'd definitely wear a mask if it meant saving them. Would I give up my house? My income? Would you? If yes, why aren't you doing it right now for the countless children and pregnant mother's dying due to malnutrition/ lack of clean water etc?

I see what you're doing with the whole save the children and pregnant mothers thing but after two years it kinda loses its impact.

[quote Beadebaser]@bumbleymummy

But no one has a crystal ball. If no action is taken - when the vast/overwhelming majority of scientists globally feel there is a cause for concern - and there is an utterly catastrophic overload on the NHS/hospital services worldwide. If a hospital is forced to close, or collapses - or simply cannot take another patient (whether that’s a child/pregnant mother etc) - because it is overwhelmed and has no staff - surely everything should be done to prevent that scenario.[/quote]
No, we don’t have a crystal ball but we do have plenty of data from the country that is several weeks ahead of us and doctors and scientists from there telling us that this variant is milder and that hospitals are not being overwhelmed. It looks like the peak has been reached in Gauteng - so these models that we’re using with exponential growth for weeks are even more likely to be completely inaccurate.

@BonnesVacances But thanks to you and PP for spectacularly missing the point and proving it at the same time.

To be fair you're the one who came in with the "selfish" nonsense.

Thus being totally incapable of understanding that other people have a total different experience or risk from Covid and that that informs their own approach.

I'm completely capable of understanding that other people are more at risk and that will inform their approach. I've said since the beginning I'd support throwing whatever financial aid and practical support is necessary so that those most at risk can shield.

It's ridiculous to think that a blanket solution to a virus that skews so massively in risk factors is still a good idea two years on.

You seem to think you have proved your point about me being selfish, but I rather think I've proved mine about you being selfish. You selfishly want to protect your children. I selfishly want to protect mine. That makes us humans and parents, imo, you'll still think you're right and I still think I'm right.

@Dishhh I dont speak for you but I speak for a lot of people.

You think its frightening that people arent wearing masks in a major outbreak...I think its frightening people are frightened over a virus that has over 97% full recovery rate and 98%+ who are dying of it are over 60s.
I think its frightening putting restrictions on 68 million people for a small minority of the UK after most adults have immunity either natural or via vaccinations.

We have a virus so deadly we need tests to see if we have it or not.

This constant state of fear is which frightens me.

[quote MrsHastingslikethebattle]@Dishhh I dont speak for you but I speak for a lot of people.

You think its frightening that people arent wearing masks in a major outbreak...I think its frightening people are frightened over a virus that has over 97% full recovery rate and 98%+ who are dying of it are over 60s.
I think its frightening putting restrictions on 68 million people for a small minority of the UK after most adults have immunity either natural or via vaccinations.

We have a virus so deadly we need tests to see if we have it or not.

This constant state of fear is which frightens me.[/quote]
Perfectly put!

@rarityroast

If a hospital is forced to close, or collapses - or simply cannot take another patient (whether that’s a child/pregnant mother etc) - because it is overwhelmed and has no staff - surely everything should be done to prevent that scenario

But the chances are it's not going to be a child or a pregnant mother. Why do you keep insisting it's going to be a child or a pregnant mother?

There are definitely children and pregnant mother's dying all over the world though. For sure. What are you, personally, doing about that? I'd definitely wear a mask if it meant saving them. Would I give up my house? My income? Would you? If yes, why aren't you doing it right now for the countless children and pregnant mother's dying due to malnutrition/ lack of clean water etc?

I see what you're doing with the whole save the children and pregnant mothers thing but after two years it kinda loses its impact.

I guess the thing is that when they can't take another patient in it might not be a covid patient that they can't take. It could be a terrible car accident, a heart attack, someone with meningitis.

My local hospital is already saying that patient safety on the wards is compromised due to staffing. Not every shift, but a lot.

@Delatron

But what rules aren’t people following? You do know even parties are allowed?

Apart from masks there aren’t any ‘rules’?

And also this! There are no rules to break

I'm really not vital in my job and I had covid and managed to just take 2 days off, I then WFH. So no I'm not bothered. There's many workers who can do the same.

@bumbleymummy

Do you think the vast majority of top scientific/medical professionals worldwide are unaware of the situation in South Africa?

Or do you think they are aware/monitoring and STILL think there is a cause for concern?

The fact you aren't at all frightened is quite disturbing. When Chris Witty looks scared and says: "There are several things we don't know - but all the things we do know are bad." That is a warning bell...

And if the World Health Organisation have designated Omicron as a cause for concern,

Should governments worldwide:

a) ignore that advice and take no action

b) take heed and enforce preventative measures.

As I said before, stop telling me/us that I should be fucking frightened. Just stop it!

All the things I know about cancer are bad, and motor neurone disease, and dementia, and Parkinson's, and muscular sclerosis and tsunamis and tidal waves and earthquakes.

Yes I realise at the moment Covid is more likely than those things, even though I have had it once already. But after nearly two years I refuse to lurch from fear to fear. Pack it in.

@milkyaqua

The fact you aren't at all frightened is quite disturbing. When Chris Witty looks scared and says: "There are several things we don't know - but all the things we do know are bad." That is a warning bell...

Except that we actually know quite a few good things now.

*meant to put asteroids rather than tidal waves, but still. The point stands.

Why can't people see that it's not about being scared of Covid, it's about the fragility of our infrastructure if lots of people are off sick? Do they not realise how many essential services could be impacted?

Granted there's been some "sticking fingers in ears", but IME many realise perfectly well what the consequences could be - and they've come to the view that, after nearly 2 years of trying and limited lasting solutions because of new variants, there's not much to be done beyond riding the wave and trying to rebuild with whatever's left

If the worst predictions are correct we can either plough through and reluctantly accept that many more will die short term, or trash what little we have now in a probably futile attempt to save everyone

Unfortunately the second option would result in many dying anyway without any infrastructure at all to support them and everyone else - which is probably why so many are now saying we might as well live while we can

That's it @Puzzledandpissedoff. Non frightened people keep being told they don't understand and that they're stupid. However maybe they're the ones who have reached your conclusion.

Yes there will be a rough period ahead. But there will be whatever we do.

OP, have a little google on stats about mask wearing in other countries, the Covid increase rates look very similar regardless of when the masks where introduced. Spain was one of the first to introduce masks and it did sweet fuck all. I’m sorry, but a piece of dirty fabric over your face doesn’t protect anybody.

[quote MrsHastingslikethebattle]@Dishhh I dont speak for you but I speak for a lot of people.

You think its frightening that people arent wearing masks in a major outbreak...I think its frightening people are frightened over a virus that has over 97% full recovery rate and 98%+ who are dying of it are over 60s.
I think its frightening putting restrictions on 68 million people for a small minority of the UK after most adults have immunity either natural or via vaccinations.

We have a virus so deadly we need tests to see if we have it or not.

This constant state of fear is which frightens me.[/quote]
I agree with every word of this.

But the chances are it's not going to be a child or a pregnant mother. Why do you keep insisting it's going to be a child or a pregnant mother?

you realise that it could be any one of us for a million and more reasons that today, right in this moment, we don't know about? That the thirst you feel today is the start of type 1 developing, for example. You realise that in a worse case scenario, people will die of diesease or accident that they otherwise would have survived? The fear is no longer covid-based, but rather an over-whelming of services that mean preventable death is no longer preventable. This also means you might not have the fire brigade show up if your house is on fire. Or the police come out to you when there's someone standing in the same shop as you wielding a knife or worse. Or there is no support when you can smell gas and half the street disappears in a spectacular explosion an hour later.

@rarityroast

What if it got to the stage that a hospital is so overwhelmed and understaffed that it simply cannot take another patient? What if that next patient was a child/pregnant mother - or you?

This was in the papers back in January and the approach seemed pretty sensible to me.

In your hypothetical scenario they would unplug the 73yo alcoholic and attempt to save the 11yo with meningitis.

If "you" are the 73yo alcoholic then maybe "you" should stay at home ?

I've just used that as an example but I think it covers how many people are feeling.

Last year I watched my business crumble and my kids miss school and our mental health suffer while retired ex-colleagues were off to blackpool.

Our play parks were still chained up while the bingo halls were open.

Tonight I just watched their nativity via YouTube and it was the saddest, most ridiculous thing I've ever witnessed. Filming each group of three children individually while pubs and nightclubs are open.

Yeah. No.

Personal responsibility 1000000% for me and my family. I could not give any less of a fuck anymore.

Yeah I hear you with this. I work in a place that is majority attended by over 60's and as soon as it reopened it was packed again with people enjoying themselves. Great Good for them, that's their choice. Meanwhile the restrictions for my kids was still huge both in and out of school. Things like no extra curricular activities in school still not opening. Class bubbles restricting what activities the children can do. Huge loss of income for many families which means no holiday and in many cases not seeing grandparents abroad. No baby groups, isolating mum's and babies. No playgroups. When things did restart numbers were limited to the extreme. It seems that none of the restrictions have affected people with huge retirement pots and this is the group we are "protecting".

@Sowhatifiam you missed the asteroid.

I'd honestly take any of them over another 5 month lockdown.

Puzzled nailed it below. If what they're saying is true and there's going to be 1m cases a day by the end of the month then it's probably going to be carnage but I'll hold on to the hope it finally burns itself out and we can go back to living.

In the mean time I'll be checking my smoke detectors and going to the shop with my running shoes on incase a knife wielding thug attempts to stab me. (No chance of diabetes and my dad is a gasman so sorted on that front ). A month of The Purge x Hunger Games seems like a price worth paying imo....

@rarityroast

As another poster said. It’s the knock on effect. A collapsing hospital won’t be able to treat a child with meningitis, or a mother about to go into labour.

An overwhelming surge of Covid cases would cause this to happen.

No chance of diabetes

There is always the chance of type 1 diabetes. And you'll be dead very quickly if not sorted.

It's fine to be flippant. But that's people's lives you're talking about. It probably won't be you. But it might.

[quote rarityroast]**@BonnesVacances* But thanks to you and PP for spectacularly missing the point and proving it at the same time.*

To be fair you're the one who came in with the "selfish" nonsense.

Thus being totally incapable of understanding that other people have a total different experience or risk from Covid and that that informs their own approach.

I'm completely capable of understanding that other people are more at risk and that will inform their approach. I've said since the beginning I'd support throwing whatever financial aid and practical support is necessary so that those most at risk can shield.

It's ridiculous to think that a blanket solution to a virus that skews so massively in risk factors is still a good idea two years on.

You seem to think you have proved your point about me being selfish, but I rather think I've proved mine about you being selfish. You selfishly want to protect your children. I selfishly want to protect mine. That makes us humans and parents, imo, you'll still think you're right and I still think I'm right.
[/quote]
Eh? Where have I said that I expect any kind of behaviour from anyone to protect my child? Find it and quote it.

The only thing I have mentioned in this thread that I expect from anyone is understanding and empathy and recognition that not everyone's experience is the same. Which works on both sides of the argument.