Why are we not in lockdown right now?!

[InkyPinkyParlezVous]

If things are as bad as they say, why are we not locking down right now?

Surely waiting til after Christmas is just too late to stop this "tidal wave"

@Rocket1982

Depressingly it is probably already too late to avert another Tory xmas f*k up. A circuit breaker started 5 days or so ago could have done it. But really @TheKeatingFive* you think most people in the UK wouldn't go for a circuit breaker before Christmas to allow Christmas mixing?

It's just not a premise that actually applies.

People would have to believe that restrictions would be lifted in time for Christmas. And there are lots who are able to see family and have Christmas regardless of what the law states, so it isn't really a question of 'allowing' either.

Hideous that people will suggest we can’t afford to do what is necessary to stop a global pandemic.

How is one medium sized country shutting restaurants and banning 'mixing' going to stop a 'global' pandemic?

@BoredZelda

because we can't afford it

Hideous that people will suggest we can’t afford to do what is necessary to stop a global pandemic.

because most people are sensible enough to mitigate the risk without an authoritarian government forcing them to

I think this has been proven to be largely untrue.

You can’t stop it and yes there is behaviour change already - demand in some sectors down by 40%

You only have to see threads on here to see companies also cancel things (eg Christmas events) pretty quickly

Many cancellations atm generally

@BoredZelda

Few people that I know would have paid much attention to a circuit breaker. It would have been pointless and made sod all difference.

People say this like they”d have a whole lot of other options. As someone elsewhere said, if you close everything, where exactly are people going to go?

As is pointed out pretty much every time someone makes the argument you're attempting here, of course people have options. Social gatherings in private homes are unpoliceable, and there were businesses and services discreetly carrying on even in the last lockdown when there was furlough. People can, did and will again ignore lockdowns to do these things.

The problem is that some of you confuse not being able to do everything with not being able to do anything.

@BoredZelda

Few people that I know would have paid much attention to a circuit breaker. It would have been pointless and made sod all difference.

People say this like they”d have a whole lot of other options. As someone elsewhere said, if you close everything, where exactly are people going to go?

To each others homes? You think because people can't meet in a bar they just won't see each other at all? Most probably still would, just at home instead.

I'm starting to think we need a sticky listing ways that people can and will flout lockdown regulations.

I'm wondering how much the (understandable) cancellations and people simpy not socialising will cost the hospitality trade over the festive season.

@MamDancer

I'm wondering how much the (understandable) cancellations and people simpy not socialising will cost the hospitality trade over the festive season.

Not sure but there’s some anger over campaign of fear as I’ve heard it called and demands for support from gov

A circuit breaker started 5 days or so ago could have done it.

I can’t see original post so there might be more to it - but what could it have done?

Not surprising, Marsha. Another storm for Johnson to weather.

Because if we lockdown again, I genuinely don't know why we have a vaccination programme.

Re demands for support from hospitality trade I mean!

The hospitality industry has been badly hit , but asking Mr Sunak for any help is useless as he will just shrug and say ' it's not a lockdown '
He might throw out a few platitudes, but mostly it will be tough luck. The government have not told people not to go out ; Chris Whitty suggested it yesterday , but he is coming from it from a public health perspective. The government are only worried about revenue and the economy ticking over.
It's a fine line, but i think that any more money being available is pretty scant just now.

@BoredZelda
Our whole standard of living is based on having a relatively strong economy. It is the reason that life expectancy and in many respects quality of life is higher in the UK than in developing countries. You wreck the economy, you wreck standard of living and life expectancy in the UK for years to come. Many countries have been unable to fund anything like the level of lockdowns which the UK has seen because they simply can't afford to (and if they did they would be diverting resources from more pressing priorities like ensuring people have enough food and water and basic infrastructure).

There is an opportunity cost to locking down financially and there are real financial constraints here. The amount which you need to spend on locking down to save just one life (or delay a death by a few months) is phenomenal and completely out of keeping with what we usually spend on saving a life and very uncertain i.e. you have no idea whether the millions or billions you spend actually saves anyone long-term. That money could be spent on something else, much of which would do better on a cost benefit analysis.

It is inherently risky to spend so much and go into so much debt in order to close down businesses and keep people at home. The long-term effects on the economy and therefore people's lives are unpredictable but likely extremely harmful. It is just as much, if not more, of a risk as not locking down. Economic catastrophe kills people.

And of course the idea that we can "stop a global pandemic", particularly with omicron, is flawed anyway.

And of course the idea that we can "stop a global pandemic", particularly with omicron, is flawed anyway

The most important point.

@the80sweregreat

The hospitality industry has been badly hit , but asking Mr Sunak for any help is useless as he will just shrug and say ' it's not a lockdown ' He might throw out a few platitudes, but mostly it will be tough luck. The government have not told people not to go out ; Chris Whitty suggested it yesterday , but he is coming from it from a public health perspective. The government are only worried about revenue and the economy ticking over. It's a fine line, but i think that any more money being available is pretty scant just now.

Honestly I’m not sure he’s coming back to discuss

I find it too onerous to contemplate how much we are racking up for future tax bills etc but his drive so far has been employment (among other things I’m sure) so we’ll see

[quote NearlyAlwaysInsane]@IWannaWishYouANutNutsChristmas no, it's not poltitics.

It's because the number of Covid hospitalisations was actually higher in September than it is now. So there is currently no actual crisis, although the number of cases is very very high. And locking down a country again and again causes untold economic and health damage.[/quote]
As I said below,

Because of politics

We have to wait until the healthcare crisis we are creating right now with record-breakingly high infections has actually happened.

Because a large chunk of Conservative MPs can neither learn from previous experience, nor think a few steps ahead to the likely consequences in the near future of us allowing record breakingly high infections now.

We're not avoiding a lockdown.

By allowing this many infections we create the hospital admissions that will lead to one.

@BoredZelda

Few people that I know would have paid much attention to a circuit breaker. It would have been pointless and made sod all difference.

People say this like they”d have a whole lot of other options. As someone elsewhere said, if you close everything, where exactly are people going to go?

My reply to that is always that of course you can't go to things that are closed. But I will see my family anyway, come what may.

Anyway, if they don't bring back furlough or any form of financial support then how can they introduce such measures. People can't live on thin air.

The Pizza express and Ask Italian chain of restaurants are owned by Chinese companies, maybe they should ask the Chinese government for some help towards the drop in custom?
It all started there, it's only right they should bail out their employees?
Maybe they already have?

@IcedPurple

*Politics.

The Prime Minister is prioritising his political career over saving British lives and livelihoods.*

If it's all about Bozza, why hasn't Sturgeon locked down Scotland? She loves herself a good lockdown, and is free to do so without permission from Boris, so why hasn't she?

Nicola Sturgeon is hamstrung by the politics in Westminster.

Until the U.K. government provide the funding for furlough etc, Nicola Sturgeon can't call a lockdown.

Yeah, I think NS would probably call a lockdown now if she had the power to fund it.

Bit how long would NS lockdown for?

And then what when released - cases will go back up and then another?

If Scotland had voted for independence in 2014 they may well be in full lockdown mode by now!
As it is, they have to wait and see.

Lockdown wouldn’t even reduce cases

So you’d be stuck in a rising case scenario - when would end point be

Based on past history, probably for quite a while.