Not allowed to do my sales job until fully vaccinated

[VioletUltraViolet]

I delayed getting my vaccination due to a genuine fear of vaccines and having already gotten Covid antibodies from having the virus. I have decided to get the vaccine now because I just want this crap over and done with and I accept my role in getting society back to a level of normality.

I am booked for my first dose today at 14:30 and second dose is booked for 9th feb 2022.

I am an estate agent. My work sent a group message to say that any unvaccinated staff can not conduct any face to face appointments until they are fully vaccinated. This means no opportunity to earn commission by listing properties or selling houses, so my salary will essentially drop from roughly 43k to 24k. This is because I earn so much from doing the appointments and 24k is my basic. I have a daughter to support and I know everyone is going to say it’s my fault for delaying my vaccination but I just can’t believe this forced vaccination is spilling out in to non medical non clinical work.

For context, I booked my vaccine last week before I knew about the work changes.

What’re people’s thoughts on this kind of approach? My vaccinated colleagues are shocked by this too.

I think this is outrageous.

And I think all the posters saying that they will only deal with vaccinated people are being outrageous too.

The OP has had covid.

We need to stop this unscientific, nonsensical, discriminatory, unjustified and political discrimination against recovered people ASAP.

We also need to stop listening to and propagating utter crap about the waning of natural immunity versus the magical properties of covid vaccines.

Unvaccinated does not mean not immune and vaccinated does not mean immune. Where is the science that shows that recovered people are more of a risk of transmitting the disease to others than vaccinated people???

It's such bullshit.

@VioletUltraViolet if I were you I would take my employer to the cleaner's over this.

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101

www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00676-9/fulltext

Absolute stupidity from the employer because both vaccinated and unvaccinated can spread covid. Anybody who agrees with the employer needs to give their head a wobble.

Can you get any free legal advice with the potential to claim Constructive dismissal?

@startled there is no evidence to say being vaccinated totally stops the spread.
I have Covid antibodies and I always sanitise and wear a mask to every appointment. I would not do any appointments if I had Covid symptoms. I had a cold two weeks ago and immediately got a PCR.
I have been responsible as much as I could be and I haven’t once had a single client request a vaccinated person to their appointment so it clearly isn’t as much as a concern for them as you make out.

Companies do this sort of thing if you have been there less than 2 years.

Potentially repudiatory breach by your employer

Unlikely. In all likelihood only the basic salary is contractual. Plus a repudiatory breach of contract is of very limited use to someone with no unfair dismissal rights.

It's insane how people can only see the word "unvaccinated" in the OP's post.

The OP has had covid.

It is so overdue that we stop thinking in terms of vaccinated / unvaccinated. We need to be thinking about immune / not immune and vulnerable / not vulnerable.

But whilst Pfizer is in charge of what we are supposed to think I don't see much chance of that happening.

Do you remember (what seems like centuries ago) before we had vaccines? Back when natural immunity was considered vital to herd immunity? Back when natural immunity was vital in moving the pandemic to endemic?

The paradigm shift we are seeing happen so quickly here is deeply deeply concerning.

@VioletUltraViolet sorry you’re having to go through this. Check out PJH Law - they’re UK employment lawyers who’ve been doing a lot of work supporting people impacted by vaccine mandates. They’re quite active on Twitter which is how I came across them.

The OP has had covid.

And the OP would still be better protected from serious illness and be less likely to transmit covid if she was also vaccinated. Lots of vaccinated people have had covid. The OP isn't special in that regard.

Can you get your vaccinations any quicker?

Sorry but if you rely so much on commission, have hefty nursery outgoings (amongst other outgoings) and don't get boosters/vaccinations due to your own concerns then you only have yourself to blame for not getting them sooner.

I know people who need boosters and have paid extra to get these privately, if need be, rather than wait on NHS.

Thank goodness an employer is protecting customers and other staff by bringing in this policy

How do they know you’re not fully vaccinated? You don’t have to tell them your private medical information (although assume this is too late). I don’t see how this could be legal since it’s potentially discriminatory. Although, like Acas says they can get rid of you for any reason before 2 years.

I don’t think it’s right that employers can do this and I’m saying this as someone who had the booster today at 30 weeks pregnant.

@startled

I'm quite shocked that you think it was ok to continually go into clients houses unvaccinated Your company sounds like it's a good responsible one

agree with this. You have no idea about the clients health issues or who they have visiting/contact with etc.

Sounds very foolhardy of you and puts your clients at risk.

Your company is only thinking of it's reputation and that of it's clients as well as you by insisting on legal vaccinations.

Why does the person who shows someone round a property get the commission? There is more to selling homes than just showing them, if you did the work leading up to the viewing and then all the work after the viewing, surely you should get a percentage of the commission.

Given the company has sprung this on you, could you request that they change how commission is calculated, so that those who are unable to do viewings get some of the commission?

I would be perfectly happy for an unvaccinated person to come into my house. In fact I work with a couple of unvaccinated people. I'd prefere negative lateral flow tests.

If it was not for the fact you have been there less than two years I would say you had a good case. What a shame. Are any of your other affected colleagues longer serving?

In my workplace we may have a similar situation in that some workers may end up getting less hours due to being unvaccinated. But that is because some of our work is inside care homes and hospitals. Worker who go inside domestic properties have no right to know anyone's vaccination status.

[quote Aposterhasnoname]If you think you’ll be classed as fully vaccinated in February after two jabs I have some bad news for you.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/15/no-10-plans-booster-jab-requirement-for-people-to-obtain-covid-pass[/quote]
It says quite clearly that you are fully jabbed once you become eligible for and have the booster. Obviously those who have recently has a second jab cannot just sign up for a booster on Monday. I wish people would read things properly

My last sentence does not make sense. But if any domestic customer asked for a workers vaccination status we would refuse to give it.

I think they should offer LFT as sn alternative at least in the interim.
Actually I would suggest LFT for all staff.

Your company has a business to run and its reassuring for clients to know that they will be meeting fully vaccinated people when viewing property. They need to keep the show on the road to even pay your basic wage.

You should have seen this coming from way off. Perhaps you were too busy digging your toes it and spouting about not being forced to have a vaccine....

While I have sympathy with your employer's stance, I would also suggest you get some legal advice on whether they're allowed to do this, especially with no notice.

@VioletUltraViolet

I just rang ACAS. They said that because I have been employed by this firm for under two years they are able to dismiss me immediately so I should be careful about what I do. They advised me to try and solve this internally with my employer but they have made their stance very clear.

I just didn’t see this coming since so many other firms are customer facing and none of our competitors have mentioned doing this!

Oh that's a pity! Yes, be very careful about what you do or say and get yourself vaccinated ASAP.

I think you'd also find that even with employment law most parts of this law would come firmly down on side of government, cascading down to companies to put law into place with their policies and most employees sadly/not sadly do not have a choice not to vaccinate.

@JuergenSchwarzwald

I would take legal advice on this. You are partly vaccinated and this is a unilateral change to your terms and conditions of employment. I do not think it is reasonable in non-healthcare/social care setting.

I also think it's up to people to get vaccinated to protect themselves, and leave other people to get vaccinated or not. The issue for the wider country is the pressure on the NHS, but I don't think that's an ethical conundrum an estate agency needs to worry about.

It would actually make more sense for you to test before every meeting, as vaccinated people can still transmit the virus.

This^

Any form of coercion for a medical with a 99 per cent recovery rate is just wrong

@luinagreine

The OP has had covid.

And the OP would still be better protected from serious illness and be less likely to transmit covid if she was also vaccinated. Lots of vaccinated people have had covid. The OP isn't special in that regard.

Based on what?

Show me some science on statistically significant numbers of recovered people getting reinfected and then transmitting covid to other people.

You can't.

In fact show me some science on just some people getting reinfected and then transmitting covid to other people.

Yes, you can show me some stuff on how injecting recovered people with covid vaccines stimulated the production of certain anti-bodies (no shit sherlock).

But that is not what is required here. If we are going to significantly impact people's lives, jobs, incomes and freedom then we better have some sort of proof that recovered people are more of a community risk than vaccinated people.

And we do not have that.

It is political and it's bullshit.

Medical procedure