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Original poster

The tragic news of this Omicron death

218 replies

User135644 · 14/12/2021 09:01

Very sad news that someone has now died of Omicron. Are the media going over the top though? I always thought a death was likely at some point. Sadly they may not he the last either.

Is it just the old adage of one death a tragedy, many deaths a statistic?

OP posts:
Beadebaser · 14/12/2021 18:49

It’s about whether we treat each human life with care and respect - or whether we dismiss certain people as being less important than others - and expendable. . Which equates to survival of the fittest. I don’t want that scenario.

Blubells · 14/12/2021 19:10

It's about what we as a society decide is an acceptable level of death. Many deaths would be avoidable (eg by banning alcohol, by banning driving) but we choose to accept the risk of death. And that's the question with regard to Covid. Do we try to avoid every single death by locking down and isolating everyone to avoid transmission of the virus?

Beadebaser · 14/12/2021 19:26

@Blubells - the examples you’ve given are manageable and non transmissible - in normal times.

Covid is a highly transmissible virus.

DockOTheBay · 14/12/2021 19:30

@Warhertisuff

Also you would usually say died of a blow to the head not died with a blow to the head. The use if the worth "with" doesn't mean the same thing in your context of "with a hammer"

If you're being very particular and forensic with your use of language then yes, but most people don't use language in such a precise manner in everyday conversation...... so if someone says "she died after being hit with a hammer", unless it was someone like a coroner speaking very precisely and whose particular use of terminology was well established, it would be unreasonable to assume that the person didn't die as a direct result of the hammer blow.

No I mean it doesn't make any sense to keep going on about how WITH a hammer is the same as WITH covid. Because "with" can't be substituted with "of" in your analogy.

If someone was in hospital very ill with a heart condition, and then was found to have been hit with a hammer the previous week, it would be unreasonable to assume the hammer blow caused the heart condition. The coroner wouldn't even mention a hammer it if it hadn't directly contributed to her death, whereas covid is mentioned even if its completely irrelevant.

I think you need to knock the hammer analogy on the head, it doesn't work.

DockOTheBay · 14/12/2021 19:33

@Blubells

It's about what we as a society decide is an acceptable level of death. Many deaths would be avoidable (eg by banning alcohol, by banning driving) but we choose to accept the risk of death. And that's the question with regard to Covid. Do we try to avoid every single death by locking down and isolating everyone to avoid transmission of the virus?
Absolutely agree with this.

How far do we allow governments to go with controlling our behaviour to "protect the NHS". Ban cigarettes, ban alcohol, ban fast food, ban cars, compulsory exercise... all would massively reduce deaths and the pressure on the NHS. But its not reasonable for the government to do this, why is it reasonable for the government to impose restrictions on socialisation etc for covid?

ChequerBoard · 14/12/2021 19:41

I can't cope with this thread anymore. It's like the last two years haven't happened.

Remember when you were all banging your saucepans outside the door for the NHS? That wasn't because it was a little bit stretched, that was because staff were literally putting their lives on the line to care for patients with an infectious disease we knew very little about.

Fast forward through 3 waves of this pandemic and thousands of deaths (130k excess deaths in the last 12 months before the 'with not of' idiots start bleating) and understandably, the NHS is depleted, staff are exhausted and yet still there ready to face into a 4th wave.

Yes we need to protect the NHS, so they can be there for us again when the shit hits the fan in January.

Beadebaser · 14/12/2021 19:41

@DockOTheBay - I’ll put that to you as well. All those conditions are controllable in ‘normal times’. None are transmissible. Covid is a highly transmissible virus. If you ban all those things - you are living in a controlled state which is not what we want.

Beadebaser · 14/12/2021 19:42

@ChequerBoard. I agree. Shows that people have a tolerance level when it comes to self preservation.

Beadebaser · 14/12/2021 19:45

And us - in the UK - are massively greedy and individualistic. Covid preys upon that, hence our high death toll and divisive society.

Happy1982ish · 14/12/2021 19:45

[quote Beadebaser]@ChequerBoard. I agree. Shows that people have a tolerance level when it comes to self preservation.[/quote]
Is that really so surprising
That people have a limit

TheHolyPotato · 14/12/2021 19:49

I do t recognise us as a nation that is so much more selfish and istic than others.
We do have a health service that had no spare capacity.

Beadebaser · 14/12/2021 19:53

@Happy1982ish

I’m surprised that (maybe just on Mumsnet) people’s tolerance is so low.

That 75000 potential deaths is seen as ‘not important’ - or discarded as someone ‘doom-mongering’.’

That every opportunity is provided to help, but people still choose to seek fault.

Happy1982ish · 14/12/2021 20:16

[quote Beadebaser]@Happy1982ish

I’m surprised that (maybe just on Mumsnet) people’s tolerance is so low.

That 75000 potential deaths is seen as ‘not important’ - or discarded as someone ‘doom-mongering’.’

That every opportunity is provided to help, but people still choose to seek fault.[/quote]
Clearly people are very fed up and bad enough outside of mumsnet
You’d know that presumably if you read / watched the news? Spoken with friends? Colleagues?

I’m cracking on with life. And so are my children. Many of us are.

I love the NHS but quite honestly,

Happy1982ish · 14/12/2021 20:17

If theNHS survived pre vaccine when we knew bugger all about it

It will be ok now

In any event, I’m just enjoying life now with friends and family. What will be will be

Blubells · 14/12/2021 20:23

the examples you’ve given are manageable and non transmissible

I don't think this changes the argument that risk is an inevitable part of live, whether it's from a transmissible virus or people's careless driving. The question is how much we want to mitigate the risks.

Beadebaser · 15/12/2021 02:08

@TheHolyPotato we are definitely more individualistic - I’m not sure about selfish. There is a view that there is no such thing as a selfless act. So countries with a more collective response you could also view as ultimately selfish. There is a famous world map by a Dutch philosopher - Europe/USA are highly individualistic on this map. And I would argue that - comparatively - the UK are probably THE most individualistic country within Europe.
Which - in normal times - is not necessarily a bad thing. We have luxuries, personal success etc - although I think individualism has played a great part in our vaccine drive.
However - the countries who have harnessed a more collective response appear to have a lower death toll/less impact on metal health etc.
Collectivism is so alien to us in the UK, that it’s causing great division when we are asked to follow restrictions.

If we can accept or understand that individualism/collectivism are both essential parts of human nature - and harness the aspects of each strategy that help us combat Covid - I would think that would give us the best result.

@Blubells yes - in normal times. But we are potentially heading for a crisis. A sudden influx of a highly transmissible virus, where a great many people could urgently need a hospital bed.

And you can’t not treat these people in favour of others.

Beadebaser · 15/12/2021 02:13

They can’t be left to die ‘because they are elderly/frail’ and denied a hospital bed/not have their suffering eased in order to make way for others who are deemed ‘more important’. As appears to be suggested above by other posters.

Warhertisuff · 15/12/2021 06:23

@User135644

We do have proof of it from South Africa who now seem to be getting over their fourth wave with far fewer deaths than they experienced in the 3rd wave (Delta).

It is summer there though.

With a virus as transmissible as Omicron, I'm not sure the season makes any real difference at all.
MyOtherProfile · 15/12/2021 06:31

Isn't it always presented as "died with" not "died of" now? That doesn't mean anything. It certainly doesn't mean they weren't killed by Omicron.

the80sweregreat · 15/12/2021 06:50

Sky news really push the SA lady scientist who is puzzled by all the drama here about the Omicron variant. She has been interviewed a few times now.
She was on last night and early this morning.
I then go on line , mumsnet , the papers and it's all doom and gloom.
It's this kind of mixed messages which are fueling the whole ' it's all hoax , we don't need restrictions' etc
I have no idea who to believe, I've been jabbed have a booster lined up and have had covid, but if it does turn out to be more scare tactics then people will become more skeptical as time moves on

MrsJackWhicher · 15/12/2021 06:53

ONE death. Get a grip.

MarshaBradyo · 15/12/2021 07:05

[quote Beadebaser]@TheHolyPotato we are definitely more individualistic - I’m not sure about selfish. There is a view that there is no such thing as a selfless act. So countries with a more collective response you could also view as ultimately selfish. There is a famous world map by a Dutch philosopher - Europe/USA are highly individualistic on this map. And I would argue that - comparatively - the UK are probably THE most individualistic country within Europe.
Which - in normal times - is not necessarily a bad thing. We have luxuries, personal success etc - although I think individualism has played a great part in our vaccine drive.
However - the countries who have harnessed a more collective response appear to have a lower death toll/less impact on metal health etc.
Collectivism is so alien to us in the UK, that it’s causing great division when we are asked to follow restrictions.

If we can accept or understand that individualism/collectivism are both essential parts of human nature - and harness the aspects of each strategy that help us combat Covid - I would think that would give us the best result.

@Blubells yes - in normal times. But we are potentially heading for a crisis. A sudden influx of a highly transmissible virus, where a great many people could urgently need a hospital bed.

And you can’t not treat these people in favour of others.[/quote]
I agree re individualism higher in U.K., Aus, US (all high on a chart and where I’ve lived incidentally)

But we have actually been good at compliance here.

There must be another factor there - but there is a push pull effect.

MarshaBradyo · 15/12/2021 07:23

@Beadebaser

And us - in the UK - are massively greedy and individualistic. Covid preys upon that, hence our high death toll and divisive society.
More negative than last and emotive

But no other variables have greater impact

Warhertisuff · 15/12/2021 07:30

@Rollmopsrule

The person who died had omicron at the time of death. We don't know if it was the cause of death.
And that's all we can say. Anyone who tries to draw conclusions from it has an agenda they're trying to peddle.
canary1 · 15/12/2021 07:36

In this particular case, headlines of one person dies with Omicron is disgraceful scaremongering. How absurd to make a special deal of this.
Omicron will have overtaken as dominant variant within the week. So of course Covid deaths will be from omicron. Why is this news?