To think we just need to use the nightingale hospitals?

[Mummamama]

The (seven I think) nightingale hospitals that were built last year precisely for COVID have barely been used. Why can we not just set these up again and transfer COVID patients to them freeing up normal hospitals for usual things? My understanding was the army was going to he used to staff them, why can this not happen now??
I understand the importance of not overwhelming the NHS but there doesn't seem to be an end game plan anymore, we can't keep having restrictions forever. At some point surely everyone will get COVID and it seems you can get it multiple times. Is it not better then to use our resources to enable the NHS to cope with the inevitable rather than spending huge amounts on lockdowns?

Army! That's what the plan was last year. I know they won't all have much medical knowledge but if they are only treating COVID surely it's not going to take a 7 year medical degree to learn the ins and outs of every possible condition

Beside the fact there aren't tonnes of army personnel rattling around barracks bored, lmao regarding medical knowledge as if that's not essential to looking after very sick patients. Ffs. But yes it was fucking stupid for them to be built without any staff.

@RoomOfRequirement

How about you ask yourself WHY it's hard to get a GP appointment. Sorry to the workshy trolls on the thread, but it has nothing to do with the current GPs not wanting to see everyone, and everything to do with a critical shortage of people to actually DO the job. And with patients like you - I can see why! Leaving the NHS was the best decision I ever made, and it's because of people like PPs who don't have a clue what's actually going on so make up a narrative to make themselves feel better. Go train to be a GP if it's so easy, you absolute idiots.

@RoomOfRequirement WTAF!!!! How dare you!!! Don't you dare blame patients for this! It's attitudes like yours that prevent the NHS from taking a long hard look at itself and accepting that it isn't providing the standard of care it should be. That's not patients fault! GP surgeries need to accept the situation as it is and find safe solutions which don't leave vulnerable people to suffer!

@RockallMalinHebrides

How do you plan to staff them?

However they planned to staff them when they planned them in the first place years ago.

@RoomOfRequirement

How about you ask yourself WHY it's hard to get a GP appointment. Sorry to the workshy trolls on the thread, but it has nothing to do with the current GPs not wanting to see everyone, and everything to do with a critical shortage of people to actually DO the job. And with patients like you - I can see why! Leaving the NHS was the best decision I ever made, and it's because of people like PPs who don't have a clue what's actually going on so make up a narrative to make themselves feel better. Go train to be a GP if it's so easy, you absolute idiots.

Nice bit of patient blaming there.

The Nightingale Hospitals were a political gimmick that cost the taxpayer £532 million but treated very few patients. The 4,000 bed London Nightingale treated just 51 patients The reasons it failed are many

1. The most important one was the magical thinking of the government that they could create thousands of new beds that would require more than 16,000 staff at a time when the NHS had 100,000 vacancies

1. the buildings were unsuitable for normal hospital patients - someone mentioned "dying rooms" and that was the model. They were to be warehouses for ventilated patients only - they lacked sufficient toilets, washing and catering facilities

1. The Nightingales were not designed to treat other conditions. Many patients had other illnesses such as diabetes, heart problems, high blood pressure etc etc These patients were unable to be treated

1. As time went on medical knowledge gains showed that Covid affected multiple body functions and not just lungs - these patients required support from other medical disciplines and were not suitable for the Nightingales

1. no-one had given much thought to the complexities of transporting a large number of highly unstable and ventilated patients in terms of ambulance and ICU teams needed to travel with them

I've had a telephone appointment with my GP. They wouldn't authorise my repeat prescription without a blood pressure reading.

I live 2 mins away and asked if I should pop up and get it done. No I couldn't come in. I had to buy myself a machine and then email them reading in.

Fair enough, I ordered one off Amazon. But not everyone has Amazon or £25 to waste on a machine they don't really want or will hardly use.

I need an appointment now. Can't book online. Only call at 8am. I start work at 6am and my break at is midday. By then all appointments have gone 🤦‍♀️

DH is taking out private healthcare he's decided because if we do get ill, it's highly likely we won't get seen.

I don't blame the NHS. They are doing their best. And last year when I really needed them - they were superb. But going forward it's only going to get worse and harder to access general care.

They couldn’t staff them last year -
They are less able to staff them now
More vacancies for qualified, especially specialised health professionals
Than EVER before

Our local one, a series of offices that were taken over, has been our areas vaccination hub. The bays now have 6 seats in them, in maybe 4 bays, and it's a constantly moving chain of people. It's very efficient! And still there, so I would imagine if it got bad enough (fingers crossed it doesn't) the vaccinations would be moved elsewhere and the bays turned into wards with beds.

Army! That's what the plan was last year. I know they won't all have much medical knowledge but if they are only treating COVID surely it's not going to take a 7 year medical degree to learn the ins and outs of every possible condition

This is the funniest thing I’ve read on a thread in about a year

@Lunde

The Nightingale Hospitals were a political gimmick that cost the taxpayer £532 million but treated very few patients. The 4,000 bed London Nightingale treated just 51 patients The reasons it failed are many

1. The most important one was the magical thinking of the government that they could create thousands of new beds that would require more than 16,000 staff at a time when the NHS had 100,000 vacancies

1. the buildings were unsuitable for normal hospital patients - someone mentioned "dying rooms" and that was the model. They were to be warehouses for ventilated patients only - they lacked sufficient toilets, washing and catering facilities

1. The Nightingales were not designed to treat other conditions. Many patients had other illnesses such as diabetes, heart problems, high blood pressure etc etc These patients were unable to be treated

1. As time went on medical knowledge gains showed that Covid affected multiple body functions and not just lungs - these patients required support from other medical disciplines and were not suitable for the Nightingales

1. no-one had given much thought to the complexities of transporting a large number of highly unstable and ventilated patients in terms of ambulance and ICU teams needed to travel with them

Nightingales have been part of the planning for years, not just the current govt term. Surely all the above points existed, 5, 10, 15 years ago? Are we saying that for many years, the NHS emergency planning has been a badly thought shambles?

The louisa jordan in Glasgow wasn't used for covid patients but was used for a lot of outpatient appointments to clear the backlog. Over 12k appointments apparently. Then they turned it into a vaccine centre before it then went back to normal for cop26. But before that they used the hydro for vaccines closing that in July.

They wouldn't be able to put it back to a hospital again I don't think as they cut holes in walls etc for oxygen pipes. They also had 2 massive oxygen tanks outside the building etc.

@Cornettoninja

Why did they ever waste our money to build them if they were never going to be usedconfused

They were to protect our sensibilities and prevent people from suffering illness and dying in full view. Basically warehousing the sick. Harsh but true.

And that could still be the case.

I think they should turn the nightingales in to care settings for the elderly that are able to be discharged but have no where to go and are ultimately bed blocking. Seems a reasonable idea that they are fit but need help in certain situations so they won’t need the specialist care from doctors/nurses so they army/volunteers could go and help look out for them.

I’ve been in a Nightingale hospital. It was like a giant hanger for patients. No proper running water. No x-ray department, no pathology department etc etc etc.

Where do you think the staff are going to come from. The vaccination campaign is mostly using retired folk. These people can’t/aren’t going to be able to work in such challenging circumstances.

@Starcup

I think they should turn the nightingales in to care settings for the elderly that are able to be discharged but have no where to go and are ultimately bed blocking. Seems a reasonable idea that they are fit but need help in certain situations so they won’t need the specialist care from doctors/nurses so they army/volunteers could go and help look out for them.

These are basically open-plan wards with rows of beds facing each other. They have even less privacy and dignity than a regular hospital ward.

They have limited patient toilets and catering facilities.

Most soldiers have a very different skill set than that required to care for the elderly and vulnerable.

If people wanted to work in nursing care they could walk into pretty much any care home in the country and get a paid job. But those settings are unable to recruit. Given this, I think the likelyhood of people volunteering do to so are minimal.

They could be a place to 'park' people to get them out of the way, but there would be absolutely no respect or dignity in doing so.

Our elderly deserve better.

@CalamariGames

A giant white elephant, I think they planned to staff them with retired nurses dentists and veterinarians if I remember correctly.

Yes you are right. Some vets went on 2/3 day courses to look after humans on a ventilator. The retired nurses were put back onto the NMC register pronto but the recruitment process in hospitals was absolutely chaotic, plus who was going to train them up? Another stupid idea ! The end result of years of shitting on nurses, underfunding and now the pandemic is that no one wants to do it anymore. Anyone remotely approaching retirement is grabbing it with both hands ...

*How do you plan to staff them?

However they planned to staff them last year I guess.*

Yeah see I don’t think they ever thought it through. Those were never going to be used.

@Mummamama

How do you think these articles you read start? Often a journalist will start with a question then seek to find an answer by asking people. And actually I couldn't find anything on the internet describing the nightingales really being built to hold the dying. There is nothing wrong with asking questions. No, I have no idea how the military works as have no military connections. I'll bet you have no idea how my profession works but I wouldn't call you stupid for asking me questions about it.

Agreed

you do realise they don't exist anymore - they were dismantled.

But yes address the care home issues but they are too fundamental. There aren't the correctly trained staff, the wages too low and they are being run as a for profit. So owners are taking slices out of the fees that are getting bigger and bigger not leaving enough in the system. We have a care quality system that isn't focussed on the right things, residents and their families have very high expectations and the delivery is appauling in most cases. Being in a hme is the most misrable experience for the most prt so people won't agree to go from hospital and that brings issues in - they seem happier in hospital - bring back the old cottage hospitals and places for recouperation rather than medical care as such

@RockallMalinHebrides

How do you plan to staff them?

Well what was the point of building them if there were no staff

Hi OP, I think sadly there’s a lot of ignorance in your post with regards to caring for complex Covid patients.. you make it sound as simple as sewing a button on a blouse, sadly, it isn’t. If they were well enough to be cared for by the Army with little to no medical knowledge, then they would be nowhere near a hospital or a nightingale. As some posters have mentioned, in my opinion the nightingales were PR, never had a plan to staff them as we can’t even staff the hospitals, there’s over 100,000 NHS vacancies.

Your comment “why would they build them?” Is again ignorant if you believe for a second these were built fairly. Quite possible and very likely in my opinion that some money swapped hands in the form of dodgy contracts and procurement.

Lots of people are suffering through Covid, but lots are getting richer too. We have a lying, corrupt, greedy government that doesn’t actually intend to help the NHS. It will not even admit the NHS is at breaking point, let alone help seek solutions. Ask anyone who works in healthcare, it’s all on borrowed time.

@RockallMalinHebrides

How do you plan to staff them?

Exactly my thoughts

Its not just about the physical location, its about the people to run them

I’m with you @user333334

@RoomOfRequirement WTAF!!!! How dare you!!! Don't you dare blame patients for this! It's attitudes like yours that prevent the NHS from taking a long hard look at itself and accepting that it isn't providing the standard of care it should be. That's not patients fault! GP surgeries need to accept the situation as it is and find safe solutions which don't leave vulnerable people to suffer!

Patients are not to blame. I can do a video call with the other side of the world for my job but a GP surgery can’t fathom the tech to video call someone who has a mole on their arm, won’t see them in person and makes the wrong diagnosis because they’ve taken a visual description over the phone, then it turns out it’s skin cancer. (Yes I’m angry) I mean, that’s not the patients fault that’s the whole bloody NHS system.

Women especially are ignored and misdiagnosed. The whole system and culture is antiquated.

The NHS would have enough money for decent basic technology if it stopped spending it on pointless middle management and random projects that take time away from what they should be focussing on (treating people!)

I could give a million to the NHS (If I had it) and most of it would get swallowed up in faff and nonsense. It would just disappear.

None of this is patients faults. We are heading towards it being privatised and tbh it’s no one’s fault except the NHS’s. It’s been underfunded because it haemorrhages money. It’s like trying to build a sandcastle in a drain it’s pointless.

It’s become a business that’s become such a British institution it’s become untouchable you literally can’t say anything bad about the NHS. It’s about time it looked in the mirror.

Why can't we get rid of this lying, crooked, negligent, shambolic government?!?! That may help.

Are we saying that for many years, the NHS emergency planning has been a badly thought shambles?

Yes. I hope the government can learn from what happened and fix the inadequacies. Not holding my breath though