To think we just need to use the nightingale hospitals?

[Mummamama]

The (seven I think) nightingale hospitals that were built last year precisely for COVID have barely been used. Why can we not just set these up again and transfer COVID patients to them freeing up normal hospitals for usual things? My understanding was the army was going to he used to staff them, why can this not happen now??
I understand the importance of not overwhelming the NHS but there doesn't seem to be an end game plan anymore, we can't keep having restrictions forever. At some point surely everyone will get COVID and it seems you can get it multiple times. Is it not better then to use our resources to enable the NHS to cope with the inevitable rather than spending huge amounts on lockdowns?

Anyone who hasn't twigged that the Nightingales were a publicity stunt dressed up to hide the fact that the sites were really there to provide temporary morgue capacity is fooling themselves about the level of healthcare resources available in this country.

@Pedalpushers

My friend works in NHS staffing and she said from day 1 the nightingales were a stupid idea that wouldn't work. It wasn't just the lack of staff but also the problem that the nightingales only worked for patients who needed ventilation but literally no other care whatsoever. Which was essentially nobody. They aren't equipped like proper hospitals so they can't transfer anyone in with complex needs, which is the vast majority of people who end up in hospital with covid. They were a stupid political gimmick by a government who refuses to understand or care what the actual issues in the NHS are and would rather throw money at splashy white elephants than do any work to actually improve people's lives. Worst of both worlds - spend all the money, get absolutely nothing to show for it, that's our tories.

This. And combined with Brexit, and all the EU care workers and NHS staff having to leave the UK has created a godawful clusterfuck. But no doubt selfish dickheads will vote Tory AGAIN!

[quote needmoreshinys]@milly74

Not only has my doctor seen me face to face, I have seen 2 nurses, plus had minor surgery, I am also seeing my doctor face to face next week.

You are a fucking shit troll, you could say the NHS is beyond repair, which is true, but to say GPs are not seeing people face to face and receptionist are diagnoising people is wrong[/quote]
no its not, some GP surgeries are functioning relatively normally a lot simply are not even still locking their doors. Abandoning their patients, its appalling and defending them is beyond anything

Yeah give us 30,000 more nurses and we will!

You can't fix the nhs till we fix the very broken social care system. Too many people are stuck in hospital with nowhere to go. To ill / frail to return home but not poorly enough to need hospital treatment. I'm getting on average 6-10 calls emails every day from social services and discharge coordinators wanting to know if I have any availability to take on new clients.

Community healthcare needs dramatic improvement. Getting to see a GP or nurse is almost impossible now. It took me 12 weeks to get a district nurse out to one of housebound clients with a wound on her leg. 12 fucking weeks of it doesn't look that bad from the photos. Complete disregard for my professional opinion as a carer of more than a decade. Yes I know they are busy but patients are suffering and being let down no matter how hard you are apparently working.

Massive respect to the army members who are already supporting the NHS. Not to mention those helping with the fallout from recent weather events.
BUT training in field management of battle injury in their extremely fit mates is an entirely different beast to Covid. Keep the rest of the team safe, stabilise bleeding, treat pain and call a helicopter type thing.
Covid patients are often frail, elderly, diabetic, immunosuppressed, morbidly obese or with underlying heart and lung disease and more.
Covid causes renal failure, pulmonary emboli, heart attacks, coagulation disorders, neurological conditions even in the previously fit.
Fully trained ICU consultants and nurses are finding these patients some of the most challenging they have ever managed. People with the “full seven year course” are struggling.
Give me strength

Thanks everyone who has answered my question about why they can't be used. I appreciate the insight, particularly from those within the NHS.
No thanks to those who have tried to call me stupid for asking a question. How does anyone find an answer without asking a question? You were fortunate to be born with all the answers, congratulations, maybe you could apply to work for the government because I think they need the help.

Oh and as this seems to be a hot issue, my GP has been seeing us throughout so I expect it's an issue with individual surgery policies.

@Mummamama

There's a huge difference between field medicine that army can do and critical care ICU medicine that highly trained medical staff do, covid can result in multi organ failure and those hospitalised are extremely poorly end. They need experienced medical staff to actively manage their condition not just watch them die in agony (or drowning as their lungs fill up)

I know our army is pretty tough but that's a kind of PTSD no one wants to remember, not doctors nor army medics

So you are right we hadnightingale hospitals and they may be repurposed later on if Nhs hospitals are bursting to full getting overwhelmed but we really don't want that situation where nhs is further stretched. Winter pressures each year are bad enough sometimes closing to new admissions on black alert during periods as it is. Lots of covid admissions would break it. No doctor wants to choose constantly between who lives or who does by how many Ventilators or beds are (not) available.

We have to take precautions now, no matter how (understandably) frustrating it is to the whole nation, to try to manage down what could be sudden influx of Hugh number of (people seriously lll with) covid hospital admissions

@Dobbysgotthesocks

You can't fix the nhs till we fix the very broken social care system. Too many people are stuck in hospital with nowhere to go. To ill / frail to return home but not poorly enough to need hospital treatment. I'm getting on average 6-10 calls emails every day from social services and discharge coordinators wanting to know if I have any availability to take on new clients.

Community healthcare needs dramatic improvement. Getting to see a GP or nurse is almost impossible now. It took me 12 weeks to get a district nurse out to one of housebound clients with a wound on her leg. 12 fucking weeks of it doesn't look that bad from the photos. Complete disregard for my professional opinion as a carer of more than a decade. Yes I know they are busy but patients are suffering and being let down no matter how hard you are apparently working.

and still GP surgeries defend themselves!!!

[quote needmoreshinys]@milly74

Not only has my doctor seen me face to face, I have seen 2 nurses, plus had minor surgery, I am also seeing my doctor face to face next week.

You are a fucking shit troll, you could say the NHS is beyond repair, which is true, but to say GPs are not seeing people face to face and receptionist are diagnoising people is wrong[/quote]
@needmoreshinys they are not wrong! You may have had a different experience but that doesn't make them wrong ffs!

A giant white elephant, I think they planned to staff them with retired nurses dentists and veterinarians if I remember correctly.

District nurses aren't employed by the GP's.

@CalamariGames

A giant white elephant, I think they planned to staff them with retired nurses dentists and veterinarians if I remember correctly.

Oh well the patients would have had lovely teeth, and their pets would have been well looked after - so that’s all good!

@RockallMalinHebrides

How do you plan to staff them?

I haven't read any more of the thread but that would be my first response....

Publicity stunt? At the beginning of the pandemic, having seen scenes in Wuhan and n Italy, we were fearing mass deaths. These people/corpses had to go somewhere. Luckily the worst did not happen, so they were not required. Who knows now? In any case, we still need a decent policy on “holding pens” for those who could be discharged but can’t ma age at home.

Adding my voice to the “can’t generalise about GPs” argument. Some may be working as normal; mine certainly isn’t. The door has yellow and black tape across, a barrier and is locked. You need to take a pcr before seeing a doctor. The recorded telephone message tells you to put the phone down and ring at another time. I must have tried every single time of the day and every day of the week before getting through.

I went to see Harry Hill recently (he worked as a doctor for a few years before doing comedy full time). Apparently he was "invited" to return to practice in the London Nightingale. Can you imagine coming out of an induced coma and finding him looming over you?!

I need someone to sort out my kitchen ceiling, install some new lights and redo the seal around the bath but I’m struggling to find someone. Could the Army help with that?

I mean as well as driving HGVs, being doctors, being nurses, being hospital porters and providing flood relief.

@DottyHarmer

Publicity stunt? At the beginning of the pandemic, having seen scenes in Wuhan and n Italy, we were fearing mass deaths. These people/corpses had to go somewhere. Luckily the worst did not happen, so they were not required. Who knows now? In any case, we still need a decent policy on “holding pens” for those who could be discharged but can’t ma age at home.

Adding my voice to the “can’t generalise about GPs” argument. Some may be working as normal; mine certainly isn’t. The door has yellow and black tape across, a barrier and is locked. You need to take a pcr before seeing a doctor. The recorded telephone message tells you to put the phone down and ring at another time. I must have tried every single time of the day and every day of the week before getting through.

the GP surgeries getting away with this need to be brought to account, anyone defending them shoukd be ashamed of themselves

Here's more info about how they are being used now, as some have been repurposed.

So not a total 'white elephant'

www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2021/04/nhs-nightingale-hospitals-worth-money

@milly74

There’s a pandemic going on. GPs were already overstretched - now even more so. Most people do not need an in-person appointment (what they want is, sadly, rather irrelevant).

@Mummamama yes people treating any patient, need to have the relevant medical training. Don't be so dim. I wouldn't trust my friends or family in a hospital where it's staffed by people who don't have a clue what they're doing.

“Only treating Covid”

Covid for me was bilateral pulmonary emboli, acute kidney injury, and lesions in liver, spine and diaphragm which are still under observation 21 months later.

Covid for my 23-year-old colleague was 4 months in a coma on a ventilator. She survived but has ongoing visual, hearing and other functional and psychological difficulties.

Covid for one of my friends was drowning slowly in her own fluids.

Fortunately none of us was in a field hospital but in actual hospitals staffed by qualified personnel doing their utmost then and in the lengthy aftermath. Doctors, nurses, radiographers, physiotherapists and many, many more.

At the outset of the pandemic there was an assumption that Covid would be a respiratory disease on a spectrum (for those who survived) of asymptomatic to mechanically ventilated. Three months in it was clear that it was an unpredictable multi-system disease which was going to require everything the NHS and research institutions could throw at it. Really not field hospital material.

@JaniceBattersby

The nightingales were never ‘hospitals’, they were set up as an alternative when it was thought patients might actually be left dying in hospital corridors. Many hospitals do actually have issues with the number of physical beds they can fit in antiquated buildings, as well as the number of ‘beds’ because of staffing levels.

They were essentially holding pens for people needing CPAP or oxygen so that they didn’t die on the floor. They were a last resort intervention that would be staffed by the army, under the supervision of trained medics, who would essentially just ‘do their best’ in a war-like situation.

Thank God they were never really needed. If you think they should be reopened OP then I’m sure you’d be glad to be ‘treated’ there?

Pretty much this except I don't think the intention was "stick em in there let em die" The Nightingagles were designed and constructed at a time when the last chance treatment was intubation while unconscious and even then only for those whose underlying health could withstand it. Since then other treaments have beem discovered and it has also been discovered that that kind of forced ventilation can do more harm than good. Anyway that's all they were resourced for.....minimal staff and unconscious catheterised drip hydrated patients....no patient hotel services, no patient loos or bathrooms, no rehab facilities...not even chairs for visitors. The layout was purposely open and sparse so that the maximum of patients could be cared for by the minimum of staff supervised by the minimum of specialist staff.

I think its like the millenium computer bug.....there is a need to take worst case precautions in case the worst case happens as it did in other countries....yes money was spent on something that was never used but wouldn't people have howled if nothing had been done and that worst case scenario had happened?
btw much of the equipment used was rented or leased, not purchased, so it will have gone back to the companies who own it.
In case anyone is wondering how I know ithis, its because the information was out there at the time...you could tell from the pictures of the insides what it was set up for.

@cptartapp

District nurses aren't employed by the GP's.

Finally! someone who knows this!!!!