To think we just need to use the nightingale hospitals?

[Mummamama]

The (seven I think) nightingale hospitals that were built last year precisely for COVID have barely been used. Why can we not just set these up again and transfer COVID patients to them freeing up normal hospitals for usual things? My understanding was the army was going to he used to staff them, why can this not happen now??
I understand the importance of not overwhelming the NHS but there doesn't seem to be an end game plan anymore, we can't keep having restrictions forever. At some point surely everyone will get COVID and it seems you can get it multiple times. Is it not better then to use our resources to enable the NHS to cope with the inevitable rather than spending huge amounts on lockdowns?

The one near me is used as a vaccination centre. It's been busy the couple of times I've been.

However they planned to staff them last year I guess.

I'm not sure "they" had got as far as wondering where the hundreds/thousands of spare staff were going to come from.

Having watched nurses care 24/7 for my Dad in ICU several years ago (1 nurse per patient) the skill and information level needed was immense. I know that at the height of covid there certainly wasn't the luxury of 1-1 care but its definitely not something that someone could walk into with only very basic training.

Unfortunately the people with "just covid" aren't the people requiring medical care.

@Tiredalwaystired

For those decrying the shit state of NHS may I just suggest that it is in fact in your power to improve things. Just google nursing degree and click the application button

Ta-dah!

Honestly don't. I wish someone had told me that 19 years ago.

@NeverDropYourMooncup

They were set up, IMO, as Dying Rooms. They weren't to treat people, they were there as somewhere for people to die. Battlefield triage - P1 Hold/T4 - they're going to die without intensive treatment and probably will in any case - essentially, give them pain relief because you don't have the resources to do anything else. The size wasn't just for unwell people, there would have been cold storage facilities so the sheer numbers weren't as obvious.

Fortunately, the NHS did everything they could to keep people out of them, which did have horrible effects for others. But it's better than the alternative of using them.

OP, you're mistaking them as being intended to save lives, rather than to reduce the visibility of numbers dying.

How depressing! Thank you for the insight

@milly74

GPs are not seeing patients, fact

Christ, who did I have an appointment with yesterday then? And the week before? And over the last year? I'd better tell someone there's a GP impersonator in the surgery.

Army! That's what the plan was last year. I know they won't all have much medical knowledge but if they are only treating COVID surely it's not going to take a 7 year medical degree to learn the ins and outs of every possible condition

Sweet Jesus.

The nightingales were never ‘hospitals’, they were set up as an alternative when it was thought patients might actually be left dying in hospital corridors. Many hospitals do actually have issues with the number of physical beds they can fit in antiquated buildings, as well as the number of ‘beds’ because of staffing levels.

They were essentially holding pens for people needing CPAP or oxygen so that they didn’t die on the floor. They were a last resort intervention that would be staffed by the army, under the supervision of trained medics, who would essentially just ‘do their best’ in a war-like situation.

Thank God they were never really needed. If you think they should be reopened OP then I’m sure you’d be glad to be ‘treated’ there?

My friend works in NHS staffing and she said from day 1 the nightingales were a stupid idea that wouldn't work. It wasn't just the lack of staff but also the problem that the nightingales only worked for patients who needed ventilation but literally no other care whatsoever. Which was essentially nobody. They aren't equipped like proper hospitals so they can't transfer anyone in with complex needs, which is the vast majority of people who end up in hospital with covid. They were a stupid political gimmick by a government who refuses to understand or care what the actual issues in the NHS are and would rather throw money at splashy white elephants than do any work to actually improve people's lives. Worst of both worlds - spend all the money, get absolutely nothing to show for it, that's our tories.

I know they won't all have much medical knowledge but if they are only treating COVID surely it's not going to take a 7 year medical degree to learn the ins and outs of every possible condition

Are you serious? That’s the same as saying let’s leave people with covid to die. They don’t need specialised medical help, just let them die. And that’s die without the benefit of medical personnel who understand how to minimise discomfort and can administer pain relief in appropriate doses. Is that what you would want for yourself and your loved ones?

@Tiredalwaystired

For those decrying the shit state of NHS may I just suggest that it is in fact in your power to improve things. Just google nursing degree and click the application button

Ta-dah!

Maybe ask yourself why people don’t want to become nurses.

I'm always astonished at how readily people have an opinion on "what should be done" when the matter in question is completely outside of their expertise and knowledge. Maybe if the answer is really fucking obvious to you, perhaps you didn't understand the question?

@Reallybadidea

I'm always astonished at how readily people have an opinion on "what should be done" when the matter in question is completely outside of their expertise and knowledge. Maybe if the answer is really fucking obvious to you, perhaps you didn't understand the question?

^this a million times.

@Wisenotboring

Do you have any idea how long it takes to train nurses, doctors, pharmacists, physios etc? Eve4n if we had all the logistical means to do this there simply wouldn't be time. OP, are you just a troll making these ridiculous suggestions/insights...?

It was the government's suggestion last year! Although yes with hindsight that should have alerted me to the fact that it wouldnt work. Bojo is a troll I asked the question because I didn't know the answer. Now I have had insight from lots of knowledgeable people, that's why I asked. I am not afraid of my original assumption being wrong.

As a pp mentioned, what they could be used for are halfway houses for people “bed blocking” who need to move to nursing homes. When I was in hospital for some weeks every single bed on the ward was occupied by patients with dementia.. When fil had a long stay every single bed again was taken by those who had dementia.

We need cottage hospitals to be reinstated, and quickly. Whoever had the bright idea of closing them down should be called to account.

@Sidge

Oh fuck off with the “GPs aren’t doing anything” bollocks.

I’m a nurse practitioner in a GP surgery. I saw 58 patients (face to face) on one of my workdays this week. I also did 6 telephone consultations and dealt with about 15 emails responding to queries, referrals, results etc.

My GP colleagues average 20-30 telephone consultations EACH daily, as well as seeing maybe 5-10 patients EACH daily. As well as all their admin.

Don’t you dare claim as fact @milly74 that GPs aren’t seeing anyone when you’re talking out of your arse.

And for the record the military is not “The Army.” There are 3 other services too 🙄. And they’re not sitting around waiting to staff empty buildings, they sort of have their regular jobs to do. I’m sure some of you seem to think the Army is some emergency response crew just lying around eating biscuits waiting to be summoned to pull the public out of a shitstorm created by this lying, corrupt, ineffective and frankly shambolic government.

As for “anyone can nurse a Covid patient, how hard can it be” - jeez. I’d struggle to nurse a ventilated multisystem failure complex critically ill patient and I’m a registered nurse with 25 years experience. Honestly, stop and think before you post.

you can be as defensive as you like phone appointments are causing deaths due to misdiagnosis. Receptionists deciding who should be seen! its disgusting!

I thought at the time they looked a stupid idea, couldn’t see how they’d be equipped or staffed.
However, couldn’t they have been used as re overly hospitals? If so many elderly people hadn’t been discharged from hospital, but still Covid+, and sent back to their care / retirement homes then maybe the death rate would have been lower.
I think for Covid patients who are seriously ill you need high staffing levels, several people to turn a patient etc… but caring for those who are recovering would take fewer staff. —- but still care staff needed when there’s a shortage.

@milly74

GPs are not seeing patients, fact

Mine are, and have been throughout. Even the reception is open again. They’ve been brilliant to be honest, I know that makes me very fortunate.

@milly74

GPs are not seeing patients, fact

I've seen my gp at least 10 times since Covid started

@Mummamama

Why did they ever waste our money to build them if they were never going to be used

Maybe not a quick solution then, but even if it means more time to train staff to work in them and offer them better pay surely that would be a saving over continual lockdowns?

Why do you think?!!! You sound quite ignorant.

Will you come forward to work in them? Or are you just expecting other people to?

And also - the army is not a substitute for a team of NHS workers (all of them, not just drs and nurses when seem to be the only staff people go on about).

Covid patients don't require some special version of healthcare because it's 'just covid'.

Unfortunately the people with "just covid" aren't the people requiring medical care

^^This. Many (most?) of the people in hospital with COVID have various underlying health issues, which might include cancer, diabetes, lung conditions, heart conditions or dementia. They need care from multiple different specialists, not to speak of equipment and facilities only available in a proper hospital.

The nightingale centres were never intended to function as hospitals as we understand them.

They were temporary morgues with a waiting room. They were a place to put the dying if the hospitals were overwhelmed. There was never going to be proper treatment, people weren't expected to leave them alive.

The problem is not hospital beds as such, it is staffing and resources that limit the number of beds that can be filled. We need to start training more medical staff and funding a recruitment drive but that is a longer term solution rather than a quick propaganda exercise.

@Suzanne999

I thought at the time they looked a stupid idea, couldn’t see how they’d be equipped or staffed. However, couldn’t they have been used as re overly hospitals? If so many elderly people hadn’t been discharged from hospital, but still Covid+, and sent back to their care / retirement homes then maybe the death rate would have been lower. I think for Covid patients who are seriously ill you need high staffing levels, several people to turn a patient etc… but caring for those who are recovering would take fewer staff. —- but still care staff needed when there’s a shortage.

That's a good point re covid positive care home residents, presumably at the moment they are being kept in hospital for 10 days, hopefully not still making the same mistakes of sending them back to the care home to infect others

Because you still need people to care for them....

Why did they ever waste our money to build them if they were never going to be used

Because they made a nice headline - and as we see constantly, people react massively to whatever the latest headline is, the more dramatic the better

Also, no doubt, because there was money to be made from contracts awarded for the building work