To think we just need to use the nightingale hospitals?

[Mummamama]

The (seven I think) nightingale hospitals that were built last year precisely for COVID have barely been used. Why can we not just set these up again and transfer COVID patients to them freeing up normal hospitals for usual things? My understanding was the army was going to he used to staff them, why can this not happen now??
I understand the importance of not overwhelming the NHS but there doesn't seem to be an end game plan anymore, we can't keep having restrictions forever. At some point surely everyone will get COVID and it seems you can get it multiple times. Is it not better then to use our resources to enable the NHS to cope with the inevitable rather than spending huge amounts on lockdowns?

Only covid?

We treat each person individually. Just because they have covid doesn't mean the other conditions stop being a pain. So the heart failure, the high blood pressure, the diabetes, the strokes previously had.

I'm working with soldiers who are vaccinating but they can't do the initial screening because they don't know about immune compromised people, blood clot risks, anaphylaxis and much more.

We need to look at social care. That's the main issue. Patients can't be discharged safely. Send them home and who cares for them at home? They deteriorate and end up back in. Families can't always manage the complex needs.

The small hospitals were mostly closed so we don't have the hospital beds for rehab or long term care. Care homes are full or closing.

There is no quick fix.

My understanding is there just wasn't the staff, and patients who need long-term hospitalisation have complex care needs so need medically trained carers.

And yes, at least some of them, like London Excel, are back in normal use as exhibition centres.

They were set up, IMO, as Dying Rooms. They weren't to treat people, they were there as somewhere for people to die. Battlefield triage - P1 Hold/T4 - they're going to die without intensive treatment and probably will in any case - essentially, give them pain relief because you don't have the resources to do anything else. The size wasn't just for unwell people, there would have been cold storage facilities so the sheer numbers weren't as obvious.

Fortunately, the NHS did everything they could to keep people out of them, which did have horrible effects for others. But it's better than the alternative of using them.

OP, you're mistaking them as being intended to save lives, rather than to reduce the visibility of numbers dying.

@milly74
I saw mine on Friday Fact

I think the Exeter Nightingale was a success, not particularly with covid but it is now a diagnostic hub and being well used from what I've heard.

Well the Nightingale in Birmingham has gone back to being a concert/exhibition venue hasn't it?

Also you can never "just treat Covid". Statistically, people needing hospital admission for Covid are more likely to have pre-existing health conditions. How do you treat their Covid without also having a good knowledge of the underlying condition?

Where are the labs going to be? CT scanners, X-ray? Chest x-rays are common for Covid/suspected Covid patients.

It's way more complex then just whack a few ventilators in the NEC & phone the army.

No they've got loads of doctors/nurses/health care assistants just sitting round. They probably do loads of knitting.

I visited a barracks last week and there they all were sat around with their crotchet. All those blankets and hats they have made will come in very handy in the NHS.

@Cornettoninja

I appreciate that oxygen therapy isn’t necessarily simple/without risks *@Sprostongreen21* but I do think it’s an avenue that hasn’t been seriously considered. We treat COPD patients with oxygen at home don’t we? And I believe Germany have a set up to treat people at home beyond what we do.

If hospitals are at risk of being overwhelmed I think it’s sensible to look at what can be moved outside of the building. I suspect that it’s investment in equipment/community support that is the biggest barrier over the practicalities of introducing a programme including stepping up the levels of treatment possible at home.

Yes my own mum before she died had copd and she had o2 at home as did my grandma before her.

It was not however given as an emergency to keep them out of hospital when ill and needing treatment though it was after assessment and planning as part of a long term condition. Cylinders have to be delivered regularly. Risk assessments by the o2 company to ensure no risks like fire and the home is suitable. Nursing staff also involved. That all takes time, staff and organisation. Can’t be done in a couple of hours to clear a hospital bed.

The trust I work for utilised community settings throughout to hold clinics and see patients off site. They used private hospital to continue surgery. But there is a limit in what community settings and staff can do safely.

I understand what your saying and it would be great to have alternative options but with covid or being unwell and needing o2 is that that may not be the only issue. If you need o2 you may need antibiotics/steroids and IVs to treat the infection. You are probably also on nebulisers. Covid causes many issues not just the need for oxygen. Regular blood tests/gases to ensure that o2 is working in the body.

There is no right answer it’s a shit show and all NHS staff will tell you it’s broken.

The staffing was the issue at the time. What might be as much of an issue this time is that they've all been dismantled!

The Excel Centre was one; well it's the World Vape Show there today, and the London Horse Show next weekend. The Principality Stadium in Cardiff was another; last time I looked it was hosting rugby internationals!

@jgw1

No they've got loads of doctors/nurses/health care assistants just sitting round. They probably do loads of knitting.

I visited a barracks last week and there they all were sat around with their crotchet. All those blankets and hats they have made will come in very handy in the NHS.

I should have guessed, I love a bit of crochet.

[quote wonkylegs]@milly74
I saw mine on Friday Fact [/quote]
Were they sat doing their knitting with the army?

Lol at this thread. Some people are seriously disconnected from reality.

The nightingale hospitals were a political gimmick.

British hospitals don’t have any issue with numbers of physical beds. Some I know even have empty ward spaces. The problem is an acute lack of staff, even at the best of times. Add in covid and the shortage of staff becomes a disaster. Hospital staffing was seriously unsafe even without having to staff nightingale sites.

As for the army… most military medics are now nhs staff who are also reservists. So calling them up would further exacerbate the nhs staff shortage.

Treating ventilated patients is also highly technical. There are now published cases of patients dying because of incorrect treatment during the first covid wave by fully trained clinicians - eg using the wrong filter part for a ventilator. God forbid we tried to use non clinicians for this work!

@milly74 I've also seen my hospital consultant, had scans, x rays etc and had regular blood monitoring throughout the pandemic
Some of my appointments have been phone appointments (which to be honest were slightly more convenient) but still had f2f with most aspects of the NHS
The phone lines are busier, the staff are more stressed and some staff have left (burnout)

They can’t staff the hospitals they have never mind staffing new ones

Our local Nightingale Hospital has been coverted to help clear the NHS blacklog.
nightingale-exeter.nhs.uk/

@Mummamama

Why did they ever waste our money to build them if they were never going to be used

Maybe not a quick solution then, but even if it means more time to train staff to work in them and offer them better pay surely that would be a saving over continual lockdowns?

But who would want to train to do this job. I am a nurse working for the NHS. We are worn out, fed up. I would walk out tomorrow if I didn't have a mortgage and bills to pay and children to support. No amount of increased pay will make what we have endured over the last two years worth it any more.

I really don't think people understand how awful it is working for the NHS.

*converted

@FluffyBastard

They can’t staff the hospitals they have never mind staffing new ones

That is because all our doctors and nurses are in the army doing their painting.

This post just demonstrates the total stupidity of the British public.

What if someone with covid, who is isolating at home, falls and breaks their leg?

The nightingale hospitals were a waste if time and money. They should never have built them in the first place

For those decrying the shit state of NHS may I just suggest that it is in fact in your power to improve things. Just google nursing degree and click the application button

Ta-dah!

Oh fuck off with the “GPs aren’t doing anything” bollocks.

I’m a nurse practitioner in a GP surgery. I saw 58 patients (face to face) on one of my workdays this week. I also did 6 telephone consultations and dealt with about 15 emails responding to queries, referrals, results etc.

My GP colleagues average 20-30 telephone consultations EACH daily, as well as seeing maybe 5-10 patients EACH daily. As well as all their admin.

Don’t you dare claim as fact @milly74 that GPs aren’t seeing anyone when you’re talking out of your arse.

And for the record the military is not “The Army.” There are 3 other services too 🙄. And they’re not sitting around waiting to staff empty buildings, they sort of have their regular jobs to do. I’m sure some of you seem to think the Army is some emergency response crew just lying around eating biscuits waiting to be summoned to pull the public out of a shitstorm created by this lying, corrupt, ineffective and frankly shambolic government.

As for “anyone can nurse a Covid patient, how hard can it be” - jeez. I’d struggle to nurse a ventilated multisystem failure complex critically ill patient and I’m a registered nurse with 25 years experience. Honestly, stop and think before you post.

@Mummamama

The (seven I think) nightingale hospitals that were built last year precisely for COVID have barely been used. Why can we not just set these up again and transfer COVID patients to them freeing up normal hospitals for usual things? My understanding was the army was going to he used to staff them, why can this not happen now?? I understand the importance of not overwhelming the NHS but there doesn't seem to be an end game plan anymore, we can't keep having restrictions forever. At some point surely everyone will get COVID and it seems you can get it multiple times. Is it not better then to use our resources to enable the NHS to cope with the inevitable rather than spending huge amounts on lockdowns?

The data is saying the new variant is milder.

As for the PP who thought you could train staff in a few weeks because most of a medical degree is “other, irrelevant stuff”… you are both right and (mainly) wrong.

Some of the medical degree is of limited relevance to your final role. It’s the 5-10+ years of training you do after your medical degree that qualifies you for your “day job”. For covid, the crucial factor is having enough qualified anaesthetists and intensivists- both specialities that take some of the longest periods to train!

Also bear in mind that the most poorly covid patients are suffering from multi-organ failure. That isn’t one simple condition but effectively dozens of different problems. This is incredibly complex to treat, even for teams of specialists with 20+ years experience in their fields.