"I should have freedom in what to put into my body"

[Acidburn]

Hi All

I just wanted to share my thoughts regarding the "I want to have a choice what goes into my body" thing.
I think lots of people (who refuse the vaccine) have lost touch with reality. Yes, everyone should have the freedom to choose to get a vaccine or not - in a perfect world. No doubt about that. However - global pandemic is not the time to be selfish. I was born in a country where there is a compulsory military service, where nearly every male had to go to war for his country regardless of his own political view. My grandfather was called to the frontline at the age of 17, and he went there, as many other boys and men did. Because that was something they had to do for their country, there was no negotiation! And right now we are in war too - but with the virus, so we need to get vaccinated because there is no other way of getting out of this war. People can have very valid individual reasons why they don't want to do it, but unfortunately sometimes we have to do things we don't want for the greater good. I really want to see this "I want to choose what goes into my body" brigade being called into compulsory military service, what would they do then? I am not trying to be rude or shame anyone, but why is it considered OK to prioritise the inviduals' reasons over mass populations'? When people end up in hospitals and doctors inject drugs into their body to keep them alive - I don't see anyone protesting against it, how is the current situation different?
When will these people stop being stroppy children and just get a sodding vaccine so we can all live our lives again?

@Acidburn Id like to remind you that some people refused to go to war even when they ‘had to’. They were conscientious objectors.

[quote Acidburn]@EinsteinaGogo because unvaccinated people flud the ICU beds, and all the other surgeries / operations are being postponed.[/quote]
As usual the fact that hospitals and surgeries are still nit back to normal isn’t just because of Covid.

The 10+ years if running down the NHS, the lack of doctors and nurses (not helped by brexit) all have a role to play into the current situation.
Your views are simplistic (and therefore wrong because life is never simple - unfortunately)

I've not had the vaccine, I have dithered over the months. Honestly though the more stuff I read like this, the less likely I am to have it!!

A war is very different to the Covid pandemic, I should know I grew up in a war zone. These war comparisons are as tired and wrong as they were this time last year. War is an acute indiscriminate danger and a direct, almost immediate threat to life, whilst this virus is something that is manageable through a variety of tools. Covid does not kill vast swathes of working population with reproductive capacity or children.

If you are reflecting on UK situation and commentary OP, "stroppy children" is not something I would ever say about the people here. If Brits pipe up about something (other than their tea! :)) as is the case now with vaccine mandates, human and individual rights etc. it's probably quite serious. Rather than worrying about the very small minority that is unvaccinated, I'd suggest you ponder on where we could all end up, if we forgo choice and basic freedoms on this issue.

I disagree with people not having vaccines and wish they’d have them but I’d argue for their right to decline them. Informed choice and consent is important.

Afaik nobody in the U.K. is being forced to have it (yet) and i don’t think we will get there. I do disagree with people such as care workers losing their jobs.

[quote Acidburn]@EinsteinaGogo because unvaccinated people flud the ICU beds, and all the other surgeries / operations are being postponed.[/quote]

And if the can't be vaccinated, because they are medically exempt (as in this case)???

So we're in a time of intense global warming and climate change with an overpopulated planet. To give the earth a chance, let's not be selfish, and let's impose forced abortion on all women for a generation.

How do you feel about that?

@fakereview - not quite true. The fewer people are vaccinated, the more the virus can spread and mutate.

[quote luckylavender]@fakereview - not quite true. The fewer people are vaccinated, the more the virus can spread and mutate. [/quote]
When I see scientists mentioning the origin of Omicron I don't see the mentioning the un vaccinated but I do not see them repeatedly mentioning these 3 possibilities:
"The three most likely origin stories are that Omicron emerged from an immunocompromised patient; that it emerged from reverse zoonosis — human to animal transmission followed by animal to human transmission; or that it emerged from treatment of a Covid-19 patient with the mutagenic drug molnupiravir."

Bore off. Get the vaccines or don't. Don't threaten people into getting injections they don't want fgs. Yes the science is clear. So is the fact that some people are mistrustful of it, for whatever reason. Some people are concerned that science can be 'bought' for nefarious power-grabbing reasons. Others might think that their own bodies will not react well to the vaccine. And plenty more people would probably have the vaccines if they didn't feel so damn coerced! The more people rant on about anti-vaxxers, the harder they dig their heels in. The polarity becomes entrenched and unbridgable. I had my vaccines later than most of my friends, purely because what feels like advice to someone else, feels like coercion to me. It was only when the initial pressure had died down that I could think straight to look at the facts. Let people be. Trying to force the issue is putting people off and causing needless anxiety!

The article I took the quote from, really interesting. I had forgotten about the variant transmitted from mink hence all the minks slaughtered in Denmark.
If variants came from dogs as mentioned in the article you think we would let them slaughter our dogs?
So where will it all end? And stop blaming the un vaccinated for variants www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/12/02/omicron-origins/

You can all the freedom you want but if it means your liberty is curtailed that's your problem.

OP some advice for you. Minding your own business is really freeing and will stop you from starting embarrassing threads on mumsnet.

@ShaneTheThird

We are not at war.

Compulsory national service isn't something to be proud of its something to be ashamed of.

No I won't risk my health when this vaccine could interact with my health condition and kill me. Why should I potentially die to spare an elderly persons life? How does that make sense?

Why is your life more important than theirs?

@Superfoodie123

Plus fuck off

Fave post today 👏🏻

@Bookworm65 is this a serious question?
The only elderly people I'd be willing to give up my life for would have to be very closely related to me. Don't tell me it's abnormal to feel this way.

You are saying you are not trying to be rude or shame unvaccinated yet call unvaccinated 'stroppy children' 🙈

[quote Skinnytailedsquirrel]@Acidburn - a voice of reason. The UK (where most of Mumsnetters are from) is a selfish country. Go to Indonesia or Japan and the behaviour is very different. Not so many selfish arseholes.[/quote]
I’m glad you like living in Japan. Why do arseholes in uk bother you so much though?

[quote Acidburn]@EinsteinaGogo because unvaccinated people flud the ICU beds, and all the other surgeries / operations are being postponed.[/quote]
Are you a doctor in ICU or are you perhaps just talking out of your arse?

You have the freedom to refuse the vaccine but your life might be restricted.

@fakereview

I do wish people would stop equating war with the virus.

Plus the fact that national service is not something to emulate.

Anyway, the unvaccinated pose the biggest risk to themselves, not others.

Not true when the clog up icu and hospital beds and stop important ops going through.

I don't feel at war against COVID, just like I don't feel at war against the weather. Very childish to see a natural phenomenom as a war.

However, sovereignty over one's own body, VS forced medical intervention? Now that's a hill I'm willing to die on. You want war? Bring it on.

Why is your life more important than theirs?

Because it's mine. Therefore I will do everything to protect my own health. I'm not responsible for anyone elses health only my own.